Episode 193: The One With the Porn Hair

I had a lively and entertaining conversation with Mike and Dory from The Othering Podcast!

Othering Podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

So I promise the episode title will make sense.

SPEAKER_04 0:05

This is Bad Attitude.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Hello, friends and strangers. Welcome to another episode of Bad Attitudes, an uninspiring podcast about disability. I'm your host, Laura. This week's supporter shout-out goes to Amanda Good. Thank you for your continuing support. If you'd like to hear your name on a future episode, consider becoming a member on Coffee. Visit ko-fi.com slash badattitudes pod for more information. You can also support the pod by visiting our merch store at badattitudeshop.etsy.com, where you'll find podcast merch and satisfyingly sarcastic designs, especially for the disabled and chronically ill communities. For questions, comments, or ideas, visit the website at badattitudespod.com, emailpadattitudespod at gmail.com, or reach out on social media. Follow at BadAttitudespod on Instagram, Facebook, Threads, and Blue Sky. As always, I want to remind you that disability is not a monolith. My experience as a disabled person is going to be different from the experiences of other disabled people. I am one voice for the disabled community, but I am not the only voice. Today I am joined by Mike and Dory, who are the hosts of the Othering podcast, which advocates for the disabled and LGBTQ communities. Dory lives with CRPS, which is a chronic pain condition, and several other disabilities, including neurodivergence. Mike has several learning disabilities and severe depression and anxiety that have been debilitating. In today's tough political times, the marginalized are the first to be targeted and dehumanized. And their podcast provides the guests with a chance to share their story and show their humanity. Welcome, Mike and Dory.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Thank you for being here. And just so everyone knows, I actually did an episode of their podcast. We recorded it a couple days ago. So after you listen to this one, you can go listen to that one. Just have hours on hours of fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:41

Yes. Because we're all fun. Exactly. We are.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

We are amazing. So I want to jump right in um with the tough political times because I talk about that a lot. What do you think, if you can pick one, what is the scariest thing happening right now that affects the disabled community, maybe specifically?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Just the fact that they're causing mass events of disability because of the way that they're, you know, kidnapping people off the streets, leaving cars, leaving children in cars or at home alone in the middle of winter. And you know, just adding more to the disability category. Yeah. I think that's that part is right now the scariest because it's not something that you know you really want to try and join. Yeah. It's not like a I mean, it's a welcoming club, but it's not a club that says, hey, let's go hurt each other, and then you can like you're gonna end up here, but we don't want to rush you. Right. Come when you're ready.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Like I think a big thing that's so scary is just the unknown. I mean, you see people out there getting shot by federal agents that seemingly did relatively nothing, and just especially with my family. I mean, Dory clearly isn't 100% white, neither are my kids.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

I'm not 100% white. How that happens.

SPEAKER_04 4:08

So it's just, I mean, and she's disabled. My son has autism. I mean, it's just you never know what's gonna happen if you were to get pulled over or whatever the case may be. It's unknown now.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Now, this is something that I've I've been on since before the election in 2024. Are you surprised by anything really that's happening?

SPEAKER_02 4:31

No.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Okay, good. Because I'm not either. I'm like, we said this would happen.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

I knew it was coming. I mean, yeah, he worships Hitler. How did you not see this coming? I mean, it's kind of and he's following the playbook book, you know, and the way that Hitler did it, even though Hitler stole from America, um, because of how we treated our indigenous family. Yeah. And it's just the way to survive it though, is to look at what they did. What did they do to survive? What did they do to keep going in this, you know, these frequently occurring uh um incidences of genocides and mass disabling events.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah. And and I think one thing we have in our favor is that we've seen it before. Like we have the history to look back on and go, oh hey, wait a minute. Now some of us are getting the message a little clearer than others. Um yeah. So how do you think because it's it's hard when you're disabled to feel like you can meaningfully contribute to a resistance, you know, like me personally, I don't feel safe going to a protest. You know, like I even through no fault, through no fault of anyone, I could get seriously injured. And that, you know, that scares me. So how do you think people can contribute without putting themselves in danger? What what do you think the disabled community does?

SPEAKER_04 6:15

I'm gonna go first. I'm gonna go first. Hard to get a word in with her, but I think doing what we do is a good way to do it. Podcasting, get your word, get the word out there, post on social media, just have a voice. I think that's very important, among other things. But I know she's a chindigo, so she'll probably have um constantly talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Don't you know, don't look away, don't let anybody else look away. Constantly um be the person that wears a t-shirt if you can't go to um the be there in person, you know, wear the t-shirt and show it online that you're wearing the t-shirt. Um, you know, donate to uh in Minneapolis or various other groups that are obviously fighting against ice. Um if you can, if you can't, you know, pass out flyers or um constantly just rest. Sometimes that's enough too. Yeah, we need people to help someone else, yeah, so that they are able to go.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

Make a million provide food, babysit, that's it, house it, whatever the case may be.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

Yeah, I think I think what you said about having a voice is really the most important because I mean, with social media, we all have a voice. Yes, right. And you know, as bad as social media can be, because God knows it's a cesspit, um, you know, it it allows us, yes, it allows us to, you know, speak our piece, but also to amplify other voices, which I think is probably more important. Um, like that's one of the reasons I started my podcast because I know that I have a lot of privilege as a white disabled person um that other people don't have, and I wanted to be able to amplify those voices who maybe don't have the platform, who don't feel safe, maybe speaking up. I mean, is that something that you guys also?

SPEAKER_04 8:14

I feel like doing the disabled and the LGBTQ community is 100% definitely, and being a white cishet male, I have more privilege than you, or of course more privilege than anybody, right? I've got the most privilege. So me speaking out, and it took me a while to understand this story, hammering in hammering it into my head, but me speaking out has more I don't want to say power, but it reaches farther than I think it has more impact.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

It does more impact, it has more impact, and unfortunately, because of the way that our society is set up where men are at the top, specifically white men are at the very top, and then everyone else. Um, it's you have that power. And you know, understanding that you have that power and using it for good is what you need to do as a person, understanding that you have privileges. And you know, it may not seem like it because you didn't get the job or you know, because you have to struggle. Yeah, but the fact is that your struggles aren't because you had the nerve to be born brown or black. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

Yeah. And I think part of part of the responsibility of having that power is like pulling people up behind you. You know, when when you climb the ladder of success, you bring people with you. And I think, you know, so like, you know, when you're talking about the peak, you're like white, straight, cis, het, non-disabled men. And then, you know, it sort of goes down from there eventually we get to white women.

SPEAKER_03 9:51

You know, eventually.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

You know, well, because you gotta get through the white, cis, het, straight, disabled men.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Who like there's this weird, it's such a weird hierarchy when you like try to p parse out who has the power in society. So I think that's really powerful that you recognize your privilege because it took it took me a long time too. Like today I learned, and it and it shows that we have blind spots, regardless of our experience, that the spoiler feature on threads is actually ableist. Because you can't like if you use a screen reader, it and I was like, I never it never even occurred to me. Like it just it it wasn't on my radar.

SPEAKER_04 10:40

Everybody has the capacity to learn something, and to answer your initial question, I believe, the whole reason we came up with the othering podcast is because of her, but she's always wanted to help people, she's a great person in that sense, always wants to help people, always wanted to make a difference. I'm gonna talk for you. But originally she wanted to be like a doctor or or a lawyer, and she was trying to figure out as things got worse and worse with political and her disability was getting worse and everything, and she was getting a little lonely, and it was just getting she was getting angry at the world, understandably, yes. That's when she decided we needed to do something, and since we used to do internet radio back in the day and we loved it, she started to go thinking that way of being on microphone, being online, talking, stuff like that. And that's kind of where the podcast started in a car conversation.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yes, because cars and showers are always the best places to get your they really are.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Like, I hate when I come up with an idea in the shower because I'm like, I don't have anywhere to write this down.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Yeah, and I said we'll never get enough people to do that, and now we're booked out three and three and a half months, and that's amazing. That's really amazing.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

That's awesome. Honestly, if we made if we didn't even put, you know, where every other week has two people on it, I think we have enough for two full years. Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

That's amazing. That really is because you haven't you haven't been doing it that long, have you? No, nope, since uh May of last year. Oh wow, that's amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_04 12:25

Um when we first started, she had already Dory had already started um in the Instagram community, disable disability community, and some of the LGBTQ community. So I told her, check with some of the people that you've met on your Instagram, see if they'd be interested. And she got a couple yeses. I said, All right, let's go for it. Yeah, that's all it takes.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

All it takes is one yes. So that actually leads me to sort of my next question, which is I like to talk about what I call people's disability journeys. So how they, you know, whether they were born disabled, if it was something that they acquired in childhood or adulthood. So, Dory, let's start with you. Since we were talking about your progression, what is your journey like for disability?

SPEAKER_04 13:16

I'll sit back and relax for a while.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

You can tell they're married, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

So mine kind of started off as a kid. Like I always I've had flat feet ever since I can remember. I was born with it, and it always caused a lot of pain in my legs and my lower back. And um I didn't think anything of it because you know, none of the doctors at the time would really say anything or do anything, and so I just kind of ignored it. And I also was obviously born with my neurodivergence, and again, because of being a female and doing well in school, um, you know, AP classes type of thing, and gifted and talented, nobody thought anything of that either. Um, and even if somebody did, it's not like anything would have happened because I'm a girl. And so um I didn't realize I was uh disabled since birth until I kind of started talking to my therapist and realized, oh shit, people aren't supposed to be in pain from you know little being a little kid. They're supposed to have moments where they're comfortable in their body and happy and doing all this stuff. And it's not that I didn't do things, I did, I rode horses, um, and you know, played sports at school, volleyball, things like that, but I was always in pain. And it started getting worse because I'm also a klutz. And I have sprained every joint in my body at least once. I ended up spraining my ankle, like one of those high ankle sprains that usually sports people get. Um, I somehow managed to do that. Just standing still. Basically. Um, and I ended up in a boot and it just never healed from there. And then that's after a while, like five years later, of going through different tests, pokes and prods and all of this lovely fun stuff, they finally said, Well, it's CRPS. And I'm like, Awesome, that's so great. And um I ended up trying to get a second opinion just to make sure. And she said, Oh, well, just looking at me, she said it's restless leg syndrome. And when I tried to ask her about it, does it cause pain and things like that? Because I was not seeing anything when I do research on Google, Google Scholar, to be except exact. And um she wouldn't answer me, and so I ended up having arguments with her, and so I didn't totally fully get an actual hundred percent diagnosis of CRPS until really this year. Oh yeah, when I finally saw um a neuro dude. Yeah. Not a neurosurgeon, but those other neurodudes, yeah, doctors that I can't think of the name of, but um, and he's like, because I started tremoring. I I have these moments where um I flare and I just my whole body shakes almost, it looks almost like a seizure, but I'm my eyes are fine. I am aware of what's going on. And so I went to the doctor about it.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

And it's the worst when you're sleeping next to her.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

That's gotta be terrifying.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

That first time has gotta be terrifying. Yeah, and like yeah, in involuntarily.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

It was involuntary, really. I didn't mean to do it. The first time, the second or third time, maybe. Um, but uh so after I saw him, he's like, Oh yeah, CRPS is gonna do that. And it's just like, oh goody. And so that's when I really um started kind of like um realizing that people like I said earlier, you know, people don't hurt from birth, they don't complain about always hurting. And then also talking to my therapist, I realized, oh, wait, we've been talking to a lot of people that have autism and ADHD. And I'm like I kept saying to her, but these things match what I did when I was growing up. And she's like, Well, duh. And so um, and I took the tests and you know, hundreds of tests out there, and each one kept saying, duh, you are autistic with ADHD. How did you not figure this out type of thing? Especially because all three of our children are on you know the autism spectrum and have ADHD and all that stuff. So it's like, how did I get so far in life looking at my children and seeing the signs in them and not myself?

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Is that a rhetorical question?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

It is now.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

I think no, I think that's very easy. Like it's very easy to be blind to things we see in other people that you know it's it's like that thing where they're like, if you hate someone, it's because you see yourself in them or something, you know, that whole trope. And I'm like, I don't think so because I'm awesome, and I don't think that's it.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

But you know, but like with our ages, I mean, when we were younger up until recently, that would have been ignored. Autism or anything like that would have been completely ignored and just tossed aside as she's not trying or she's too tired or something like that. It wouldn't have been so she's taught her whole life that there's nothing wrong because it was ignored. So why are you gonna think differently as you get older? That's what you were taught, that's what you learned.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

True. It's just so did you think other like did you think everybody else was always in pain?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Honestly, like sometimes I did think other people were always in pain. And like I would be like, you know, why can't you suck it up? And kind of thing. Because I didn't grow up really with disabled kids, at least not visually, like you couldn't see that they were disabled. And so when they would complain about, you know, back pains or their arms hurting or something like that. In my mind, I'm like thinking, suck it up, buttercup. I'm doing it, you can too. Yeah, the same thing. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I'm like, that's that's not real pain. What are you talking about? Like, yeah, which is you know, totally your pain is valid, but you know, we've been we've been through it, you know. Well, yeah, and I mean my thing is like I don't have chronic pain, like I have pain free days, so like it blows my mind that there are people just out there just in pain all the time.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

That's hard to comprehend.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

It is, it really is. Sometimes it's hard to comprehend that I can I can and have done so many things with being in pain because you know it's not like it ever stops.

SPEAKER_04 20:46

It wasn't chronic when you were a kid though.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

It was because I was always hurting, my back was always hurting, my feet were always hurting. I would come home from school. That's partially why I can't wear shoes. I had to take them off as soon as I got home from school because my feet would be killing me. I couldn't stand. Um, I could I could do it because you had to, but you know, within 10 minutes, 20 minutes of standing in the kitchen doing dishes or something else, I would hurt. I'd have to lean on the counters or sit down in a chair, something in order to alleviate some of that on my back. And you know, it's not like I was even even heavy then. I was very skinny, you know. I was I even got down to a size four and it didn't matter.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yeah, because it's always because you're fat. That's that's no matter what.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

That's it's always you ate a Twinkie once. It's that yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah, I have an appointment with my doctor next week, and she um the last time I saw her, she had given up sugar. And I'm just like, oh god. Like, why? That's my first question.

unknown 22:01

Like, why?

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

I mean, there's like I I'm so little joy. Exactly. There is so little joy in life. You only get one. It's not like even if you believe in reincarnation, you're not going to remember this. So technically, you still only have one life. Why why don't you enjoy it? Why do you need to fit in? Be be healthy, whatever that means to you. In you know, in your case, don't follow the gym trends of you know, locking yourself in a gym room for 20 hours just to be Claudia Schiffer or you know, some supermodel nowadays. I don't follow them anymore, so I don't remember. And you know, be happy. Yeah, enjoy the ice cream, enjoy the cake.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Amen. Amen. Because I mean, I've been seeing her since I was in college, and since I was in college, which was objectively probably my peak fitness because I was rolling around campus all the time. She's been telling me to lose weight. And I'm like, if I could will it away, whatever. Fat phobia is another day.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Fat phobia makes me angry because that's the first thing it and it's always like the fat doctors that tell you you need to lose weight, and it's just like, well, you first, fatty. What you want to say, but you know, we try to be respectful, but it always it really pisses me off that they do that though. Yeah because agreed. Even if I lost 200 pounds, which I don't have to lose, um, I would still be in pain. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

It doesn't make a difference. And then they they're like, well, your blood pressure would be better, and this and that. And I'm like, okay, how about the fact that like almost every person I'm related to also has high blood pressure, regardless of their weight? Like, let's let's let's be a little bit realistic here. Like, I knew that when I hit my mid-30s, I was gonna have blood pressure issues because of genetics.

unknown 24:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Right. I knew what was coming. Um, so did you experience any ableism like in getting your diagnosis where people like, oh, you're just lazy? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yes. When I when I first injured my leg, I went to see an ortho and he said, I don't see anything wrong, I don't really know why you're really here. Why don't you just walk it off?

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Okay, well, if I could do that, I wouldn't be here.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Right. And I was just so upset that he would just dismiss me like that and just oh, just walk it off. And I did, I tried to walk it off, and it ended up making it worse. Because at the time I was working at a community college, and community colleges pretty much anywhere are just ridiculously hilly places, beautiful in pictures, but terrible to walk. And so I figured, okay, he said there's nothing wrong. He's the doctor, I'll listen. And I kept walking and you know, trying to also not gain back the weight, and it didn't work. Yeah, I I had lost over a hundred pounds, but I was still in pain. I in fact, it was way worse, it was traveling up to my knees at that point, and the fact that he was just like, just walk it off. And and then I went to see another doctor because my hip was hurting and I hadn't fallen, nothing like that. It was just hurting, and he's like, Well, if you lose some weight, and right then and there I was just like, never mind, I'm not I'm not gonna do it because there's there's no way that I'm gonna be able to lose enough weight for him to then take me seriously.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

And this was after you had lost the hundred pounds, yeah. What would you like me to do? Erase myself, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Oh, I hate people, yes, that's why I say enjoy the fucking cake.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah, like it's I I don't know, like it's I I have no words.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

And then moving on, Mike's got a good story about ableism for his depression.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Oh, go because I deal with depression too, so yeah, yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

I'm gonna start back at the beginning. I was born into a very Catholic family that lived like the American dream, white picket tents, two kids, one cat. Uh, I went to Catholic school. It was that quote unquote perfect setup, which as you know ain't so fucking perfect. Um, but I always struggled in school. I have troubles with comprehension and other learning disabilities. I don't really know what they are, but I always, always struggled in school. My dad, however, did not struggle in school. So because me struggling, struggling in school and I wasn't as good as him, it caused a lot of problems, a lot of fights, a lot of um basically you're an idiot, stuff like that all throughout the school years. And then in school, I was being bullied relentlessly all the time for as long as I can remember. Like I don't remember a school year where I wasn't bullied relentlessly. So, and part of what that caused is I learned if I don't talk, they can't make fun of anything. So I learned to shut up, which is why for the longest time I was very shy, quiet person. I'm finally kind of getting over it. And the only reason I can do stuff like this is because I don't see the audience. But I learned quickly that if I shut up, that will help. It doesn't fuel the fire as badly. So, and then when I went to my parents back in high school to let them know after convincing from certain people to let them know I think there's something wrong and I think I have depression. Well, let me backtrack before I say that. I went to them about being bullied several times, and they would tell me, Oh, just laugh with them. Then they'll think it doesn't bother you. Just laugh. Of course, that doesn't work. So then I went to my mom and told her, I think I have depression or I want help or whatever. That you know, that conversation. And she cried because and I think she asked, What did she do wrong? That sort of thing. And I mean, she got me help, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't the correct reaction by any stretch.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Yeah, she and I remember you saying she just looked at you, started crying, and like, what did I do wrong? It's like, dude, it's not about you. Yeah. I mean, it is now because you said something, but it wasn't before.

SPEAKER_04 29:20

So I've always had a fear of what other people think, like uh extreme fear of it, where I would be very quiet unless I knew you really well.

SPEAKER_00 29:31

And tell her, tell her about the lovely therapist that I had to rip a new asshole for.

SPEAKER_04 29:37

Um it was probably three or four years ago. I was starting to see a new therapist. I had seen her, I think, two or three times, and I had explained a lot of my childhood and stuff like that. I explained a lot of the story. So one time I went in there, I said I really didn't have much to talk about. I didn't really have anything that specific visit. And by the end of the session, she told me that I didn't know what depression was. There's no way I'm depressed, and maybe I should go home and think about it for a while and let her know later if if there's really a problem. Yeah, I never went back to her. I have since she's a really good therapist.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

I hope you also like reported her to the licensing board and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

Story left her a nasty review on Google.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah, hit them where it hurts.

SPEAKER_04 30:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

I did. I was so vivid and upset because I was, you know, with depression, um, you don't always have something to say, it's not always yeah, oh, because my dog died today, or something that some the whole point of depression is that you are going to feel down for no good reason sometimes.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

And it took me two or three years before I got up the courage to call another therapist.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Yeah, because I can imagine, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

I sort of believed her, yeah, made me think, am I crazy?

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Yeah, because well then you need a therapist if you're crazy. Yeah, I mean, yeah, because they're supposed to be the experts. They're right. I did therapy briefly in college and it didn't really work for me. Like I thought about going again, but I learned very quickly how to say what she wanted to hear. Like, I will always scream from the rooftops. If you think you need medication, take it. Like, because man, you know, do you remember those shirts that say hugs, not drugs? I made a shirt hugs. I made a shirt that said screw hugs, take drugs. Because I mean, like, sometimes sometimes it's chemical, sometimes it just is.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Yes. And don't let anybody tell you that you're not, especially when like in Mike's case, two different doctors in two different states said he had clinical depression. Well, at the time though, it was definitely two, because there it was New Jersey and Ohio, and it's not like you know they colluded because they didn't even know each other. And they were ink hoots. Yeah, it doesn't make sense because, like I said, when you're depressed, sometimes it's not for any good reason. That's why it's called depression.

SPEAKER_04 32:31

So you had asked Dori, do you did you always think that other people hurt all the time? So something I always thought that everyone considered suicide at some point in their life or had some sort of suicidal ideation at some point. I thought that was standard for everyone. And apparently it's you know what?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

I'd I actually now that you say it, I'm like, is that not something everybody thinks about?

SPEAKER_04 32:58

Like at least once I actually posted something on threads about that, and I got a resounding no, that's not normal.

unknown 33:07

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Because I mean, I mean, I would think even like an average angsty teenager, you know, not depressed, just teenagering, might think about it at least. Well, now my mind is blown.

SPEAKER_04 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:25

Because I really would have thought like everybody would think of it just once. You know, like sort of a what if scenario. Right.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Right. I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

I don't think that's the usual look at me, you broke me.

SPEAKER_04 33:44

Learn something every day.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

You broke me. That's yeah. Anyway, um, so now I understand one of your kids is non-binary, correct? Correct. And is that why you also focus on the LGBTQ community, or are either of you part of that community?

SPEAKER_00 34:03

Um, partially that person, and partially because I am a part of it as well.

SPEAKER_03 34:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Um, our child is non-binary, and they kind of had been struggling throughout their childhood, trying to figure out who they were, you know, what they were, all of those things, and couldn't find the words. And there was a lot of issues that arose from that, you know, not being able to really describe who they were. Um, you know, and it's really hard when you're a teenager because it's hard when you're an adult. I still don't know who I am. And when, you know, going helping them through that and getting them to a happy place, and then I started kind of like, you know what? Hmm, maybe. And then I started talking to my therapist about it. How when I would I've watched porn. Um, I know that usually women don't admit that, but I have watched, and it is okay to watch.

SPEAKER_04 35:04

Um to watch with. Here's why.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Because I would I would look at the female bodies, and it didn't dawn on me why, but I only focused on the female bodies. I didn't care to look at the men all that much.

SPEAKER_04 35:21

That's not why.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

And I would critique their hair.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

That's why. And it's the hair on the head, not the other hair.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yes, I oh, I would say, oh, that's a beautiful shade of red or blonde or brunette, or oh, how did they get their hair in that style? And how is it staying so well? And I would just ruin it. So that's hilarious. And I told my therapist this, and I'm talking to her, and she's just looking at me like, wow, we have a lot to unpack with you, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 36:03

And I hear her dialing her sister, cancel all my other appointments, we're gonna be here.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

But I was and it dawned on me then, I'm like, wait a minute, I find them attractive, and I really like looking at them. And it wasn't necessarily to compare my body to them, because that wasn't what you know went in my head. It was just they had beautiful bodies, and I liked looking at them, but at the same time, I think subconsciously I was afraid to say that, so I would just talk about that how beautiful their hair was. Come on. That's so funny. Oh, I like that haircut, it's so flattering. Yeah, where did you see it?

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Well, I saw it in Hebbe Does Dallas and the other thing when she was, or we mostly her, was talking about the podcast and coming up with it, it was the idea of the first to go in situations like this as disabled in LGBTQ community.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Because when they went through and you know co colonized the places, the first people that they would slaughter would be the elderly, the ones that at the time we didn't know were LGBTQ, but that's basically what they were. And disabled people.

SPEAKER_04 37:35

I just learned because of our recent guest that the action T4 uh thing that happened before the Holocaust was um basically a mass murdering event of disabled people. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say about that before.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

I was gonna say the first people in the Nazi gas chambers were disabled people, and you know, they they tore up all that uh the trans um research that had been done to that point, and uh they murdered gay men because they figured since they they you know they're worthless, which they're not, but that's what they thought.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

And they the only reason why they didn't necessarily murder the lesbians was because they figured they just needed bread. Yes, it could be bread, bread. Yeah, um forcefully bread. And so that's the only reason why a lot of the lesbians weren't murdered. Some of them were, but not all of them. And again, they got those ideas from the way that we treated the indigenous people, the way that you know, because of our Bible, um, you're supposed to be either a man or a woman, and that's it. And you know, putting people in those boxes, and if you didn't fit those boxes, you were shipped out to concentration camps. Um, and it was uh you know the precursor to what Germany followed, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

And if if you look back at indigenous history, a lot of tribes actually venerated disabled people, they were considered like shamans or whatever. They remember, you know, the two spirit people were could you know valued and like it's so insane to me as someone who grew up in the Bible Belt. You know, I live in the South. Like, I don't I know that the first thing you ask when somebody new moves in is where do you go to church? Like how I get I guess I was lucky because being hurt so much as a kid, I didn't I wasn't ever forced to go to church. So I didn't go to church a lot. Um, I knew enough. Like I I know the you know the dogma or whatever, and I believe in God, and I'm just like, how did we get here? Like, how do we look at this book that was definitely not written by God and saying this is what God said like God did not write this book.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

God is busy, he did not write a book and it was written a really, really long time ago, completely different things going on, different morals, different rules.

SPEAKER_01 40:27

And it was always copied by hanging, yes, and there were mistakes and willful, willful mistakes, like purposeful changing of the meaning and of the text.

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Like, come on, yeah, and you know, they didn't talk about homosexuality, not the way that we do now, because they didn't fathom the idea that you know people loved each other in that way. They weren't focused on that, they were focused on other things that were more pressing, as you know, basically a slave master type of incidents. Like um, I don't know, pedophilia. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Hint to anybody listening, hello.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

And part of it is it, you know, it all comes down to the fact that when the church really um, after a few centuries, decided that they wanted power instead of following Jesus or following the Torah, um, they decided that power was more important. So they changed things and you know, kicked women out of being able to preach and things like that because they used to be priests as well as men. They could preach the gospel, Jesus believed in women preaching the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

I saw someone say Jesus was a feminist. Yes, he did. And like, and like it just was also like socialist. It oh yes, it hit me so hard because I was like, oh my god, Jesus was a feminist, Jesus loved women. Yeah, yeah. But people will not, they can't handle that.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

No, they can't. And you know, basically it kind of goes back to the way that pagan religions were, where they exalted the female, they exalted the two spirits, and they they thought that those people were truly wiz wise beyond their years, and they listened to them. And somewhere along the line, men just couldn't be happy in that situation for some reason, and decided that well, let's just take what Jesus said and twist that so badly and that we can rule, and they made him a white man, yeah, yeah, it's highly unlikely.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

White people didn't exist then, yeah. Well, not there, no. Like the thing, the thing I love the most, the like the weird factoid I love the most is that the modern image of Jesus as a white man is based on um Leonardo da Vinci's lover, who was known as Little Devil. And I'm like, that's just so poetic somehow.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Like, like, come on. Yeah, I mean, Santa also isn't white people. Santa was never white.

SPEAKER_01 43:27

I mean, pretty much I hate to I hate to break it to you as a white person. We didn't do much.

SPEAKER_04 43:36

Nope. Like we still don't do much, just fuck it up worse.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

We just take it. We just take it. I don't know. Like, I'm I'm one of those, you know, that that thing that goes around every so often. Like, do you ever what the fuck white people and you are a white people? And I'm like, Yep, every day.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

That's part of our problem with our country right now, the white people that are being very white.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

scared of they're they're terrified because they're seeing it through the lens of if brown and black people have power they're gonna treat us the way that black and brown people have been treated.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Oh wait are you saying we've been treating black and brown people badly all these years yeah I know maybe if you don't treat people like shit you wouldn't have to worry about it coming back onto you.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Yeah yeah and there's that part and some of it is just it's harder to pinpoint what group you belong to if everybody's mixing. Yeah because there are black people that look white there are white people that look black and it just it just happens that way especially and you know it's they're terrified of ambiguity they can't look at you and say oh you're white so you're safe or oh wait a minute are you are you black or wait a minute are you hispanic wait no no you're you're Indian right or you know and they kind of it boggles their minds yeah but but then you get them who are like you know that whole thing of if you have one drop of black blood and they're all about white purity and I'm like bro I guarantee you if you went back far enough you're gonna find something very disturbing in your history you know the same people who are um who get upset about trans people because they're like it's all about the chromosomes and you know there was a thing where they used to do chromosomal testing in elite sports but they had to stop because people got so freaked out because their chromosomes weren't what they expected them to be. It's like you could be a woman and have an XY chromosome you can be a man and have an X X chromosome yeah it's just I have something to say about the racism topic.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

I don't know if this is coming out so this may be irrelevant by the time it comes out but today probably not today Trump posted something on social media that was extremely racist. I saw your postal threads yeah a lot of people wanted it to not be shared and I strongly disagree with that I get what they're saying but that's the problem racism exists because we've always swept it under the rug and pretended it didn't exist. So if you're gonna share that and then ignore it and sweep it under the rug pretend it didn't exist and then the White House takes it down and nobody shared it because you were so against it it didn't exist. It's gone now so you need to speak up and share stuff when race racism happens or ableism happens any of those isms happen because it's so easy to be forgotten.

SPEAKER_01 46:59

Yeah and I mean and and I understand like obviously not wanting to perpetuate that image but all you have to do is be like I'm sharing this so that we don't forget so that we don't ignore it.

SPEAKER_04 47:13

I'm not sharing it because I believe in it like yeah yeah I th I saw your post and I was just like you're not sharing the picture because you like the picture you're sharing the picture to show who posted it and to show what's going on and who's leading our country down the shithole.

SPEAKER_01 47:31

And like and I mean and the the worst part is you know there are people sharing it because they did like it. Yes and they of course they thought it was hilarious. And I mean for anyone who's listening who doesn't know because Mike's right we we don't know exactly when these episodes are going to come out he shared a video that showed a clip of Barack and Michelle Obama as monkeys which is very old racist trope for a very very long time and not the first time they've been shown in that way which is absolutely disgraceful.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

What the fuck white people and it's just like at some point don't you ever get tired of having your head up your ass and breathing that stale air don't you ever want I can't comprehend being like that wanting or hating everything so much and wanting everything so bad. I I just don't I can't comprehend it I don't have the energy so much empathy I don't have the energy to hate that many people at one time and what's amazing is that it's not like a race that racism is only in America. It's everywhere. But yet we're the only country who hates so badly and has their heads so far up their asses that we don't have universal healthcare that we don't have a universal income of any sort we don't have any we're you know trying to dismantle all of our hard you know fought for um safety nets and it always is based in racism racism in getting getting rid of those I mean um the first episode I did this year was sort of running down all the ways the administration um had attacked the disabled community in 2025 but I mean really it's it all overlaps.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

Yes like you can't you can't attack one community in a vacuum you just can't do it.

SPEAKER_04 49:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

Correct well see the thing is is that it all starts with racism and this is my theory but it's because black is and brown people Hispanics whatever were always seen as inferior they were listed as dumber not as smart now what does that sound like sounds like what they think of disabled people. So in order to hide the black and brown people you label them disabled. Now they're a part of the disabled group now you can then you know put them in institutions or put them wherever you deem fit because you know they're not allowed to have thoughts and things like that because that's not smart. They're stupid people and then you know it spreads to women well you know women aren't smart either so let's put them in that group and it all still stems from this inherent hate it actually it's jealousy it's just ridiculous jealousy of the fact that black and brown people have something that white people want and because they can't get it in a certain way they hate it hate people like that.

SPEAKER_04 50:54

That someone different than us can have something better than us.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah yeah it and it's really not that hard work as hard as we do yeah we have to work twice as hard you don't yeah so you shouldn't really hate us for that yeah you should you shouldn't hate us for being willing to work for what we've got shouldn't hate us for having a different skin color yeah you shouldn't be you shouldn't hate people period I mean you can hate people but like have a good reason like their skin color not a good reason their gender identity or sexual orientation not a good reason disability not a good reason Hitler 2.0 good reason yeah yeah pedophile good reason very good reason like it's just and even pedophilia stems from um our racist history especially during the slave things because they would kidnap um black people and bring them over here especially as children they would breed with them to find the right um strength and you know be able to work the fields or work the house just fine and uh you know all of those things and in order to do that they would purposefully pick children yeah gross yeah yeah incredibly gross like I look at my friend's kids and I'm just like how like like like okay I can look at an 18 year old male child or whatever and be like objectively attractive like he's hot he's got muscles he's young whatever I am not going to try to sleep with the 18 year old even though technically it would be legal you know like how do you look even at a child that looks like an adult who looks like a very young like how what and I know I know pedophilia is mostly a male thing.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

I know there are female pedophiles but it's much rarer sort of like female serial killers they exist but they're rare. Right and I'm I just how do you talk to someone who is 30 years younger than you like how and then and and I understand grooming and everything but then you you hear young women who are just like I just want a sugar daddy and I just want how I don't I keep my brain doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

I don't get it neither do I well like the whole shaving thing a lot of people feel like it's rooted in pedophilia you know having to have the clean armpits and you know clean pubic hair well of course you're clean but I mean removal of pubic hair and it kind of is rooted in pedophilia because they want women to look like little girls.

SPEAKER_04 54:13

Yeah I mean not every man is thinking that is started in that idea of I want you to look like a kid and I just don't understand how you look at a nine year old an eight year old a 15 year old when you're in your fucking twenties or older and say yeah I want to tap that ew what the fuck is wrong with you being a male and no TMI here but before I met her and she said that I never thought of a shaved female as a little girl yeah not the reason I liked it and that's and now you're like okay I don't like it anymore. Throw that hair out braid it put a design in it.

SPEAKER_01 55:00

Yes yeah I mean I just it I don't and then that brings me to something um an episode I did a while back about have you ever heard of the Ashley procedure? It's a very rare thing thank goodness but basically it's when a child a severely disabled child who will need lifelong care their parents go through the they put the child through these medical procedures to essentially stunt their growth and keep them childlike forever like they they do it's it's to keep them small so they can you know still carry them they like fuse their growth plates remove um you know for girls they remove their reproductive organs I don't really know how it works with boys because it's obviously it's called the Ashley procedure so you know and it's just the defense is it makes it easier for the parents to care for them and it keeps them safe I'm like it doesn't keep them safe. Like if you put if you end up because eventually the parents are not going to be able to take care of them. That's going to happen sooner or later. And now you've put them in a different sort of peril right and I did an episode on that I did it in response to um a lot of the legislation blocking uh puberty blockers for trans kids because I said the same legislatures legislators that are against puberty blockers for trans kids would probably be totally fine with this. And I did get a response from a trans person who was so pissed at me that just makes me believe they didn't actually listen to the episode because they were like it's just an inconvenience for the disabled person.

SPEAKER_00 57:07

I'm like I don't think you I don't think you listened it's not no it's like in my mind if you don't want the kid give them up if you don't want to get have a gay child you don't want a disabled child you don't want a transgender child don't have sex tire tubes get vasect vasectomized get a vasectomy snip snip yes do do that but don't ruin somebody else's life just because it's inconvenient for you and you know to all those people that say trans is bad you know puberty blockers actually save a lot of people's lives yeah it's not just trans people that use it well you know yeah the the puberty blockers aren't limited for cis kids right right you know it's like why what is so scary it's because it goes back to religion religion tells us that there's one man and one woman well the book tells us this shit um and so because the book says that and they can't be happy as you know because they can't eat pork they can't eat fish they can't eat c have cotton blends and all of these but they do it all anyway. They do it all anyway yeah I mean technically the Bible also says that women are supposed to wear coverings you know um and we don't need that either cut your hair don't eat tattoos don't wear jewelry don't like come on and part of it was you know to not be ostentatious with your wealth yeah no don't be a dick just because you're wealthy and they totally miss that part. Yeah and they pick and choose the parts that they want to listen to but it's like if you're going to say that trans is bad which is not even mentioned in the Bible but it's because they're so stunted in their mental acuity and their mental abilities because of an overarching patriarchal church that limits everybody's ability to question. And when you can't question things you just take it at face value and then you get bitter and then unhappy and then you can't express yourself because you can't have tattoos you can't do this you can't do that. You're not supposed to wear a dress because you're a boy whatever shit that is and instead of actually listening to what Jesus said they just listen to what the damn pulpit is telling them. So trans people are the basically the antithesis of what they're told you know you're supposed to just be a man or a woman you can't have feelings as somebody else and it goes back to we've always been there they have always been around but it scares them because that's control that they no longer have yeah it does all come down to control.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

They want to control everything everyone in their image also I don't know how to tell people this Jesus wore a dress sorry to break it to you. Yeah yep princes kings they wore dresses too yeah they wore high heels that's where they came from is that men used to wear high heels in order to look taller so that they could stand they used to wear tights yep like don't don't get them on release only after Eve made them bite the apple and they assuming that's not a lie right I I think Adam was like I'm gonna eat this apple and then I'm gonna say it's your fault because that's that tracks that tracks um it was like she wearing a leaf at that time but you know what was she wearing oh my god oh I was gonna say like I like don't talk to me about how men used to dress like men when in the 80s men were wearing hot pants and crop tops shut up they were and they did their hair just like the women did they had the hairspray and the big curlies girly hair and they wore makeup eyeshadow eyeliner rouge lipstick they did all that and I mean on like the manly TV shows like Magnum like what's his face not magnum one of the guys but was all the black guy he was always wearing like like come on I know I used to watch that show with my dad yes like it is just to wear makeup Washington wore makeup we won't we won't talk about because of his teeth could be I'm not talking about his teeth which were not made out of gold or wood or wood were made out of slaves' teeth. Yes but he still wore fucking makeup yep they also like French kings like the whole like the pale ass you know white lead paint on your face that was super popular in like the 1700s.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Yes wigs men men just when you were supposed to be at the height of your um power is that you got to wear a wig and wear the tights and the you know the short dress and the belt across it and you know the high heels like I was not a history buff in school like I wasn't great at it because it was a whole lot of dates and not a whole lot of context.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

That's a disservice yeah I agree like and I and I I don't want to fault the teachers because they're very limited in what you know they can do and the time and you know teach the test.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Right because we're so obsessed with a fucking test that doesn't prove anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

Yeah well it's so much worse now like I know my sister works as a TA and it's just like these kids don't know how to do anything.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:58

No they don't and because we well I mean and they push them through to make sure that they graduate regardless of whether or not they're really ready.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Yep for the data they always did that they always did that and it's a shame because they're you know it's okay if you need to stay back. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah but they wouldn't like when I was going to school they wouldn't let any of us skip a grade because they needed the money they wanted the money um and the data also equals money to them.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:33

Yeah so I was never eligible to skip a grade so I don't know how that works. I was in the remedial classes drug addicts.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

Which I still think is not beneficial either. Yeah clearly you know put separating out all of the kids like that I don't think and you know this is coming from an educator's meant mind but I don't think we should separate them out you know the quote unquote remedial versus the quote unquote gifted and talented because I think they can all learn from each other and help each other because those that are slower if they are paired with somebody from gifted and talented usually gifted and talented kids are bored because they're you know trying to wait for everybody to catch up type of thing but they're responsible for helping other people catch up to that kind of changes how you feel about it at least for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:31

I disagree because I think they should be separate just not labeled as such. Not labeled this is a stupid kid's this is the smart kids not labeled like that but they should be separate because otherwise they're just gonna have the smart kid do it all and they're gonna sit back and not do anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:46

No I know how they were I don't know I was the smart kid and man you know group projects were a pain in the ass if you were a smart kid because you had to pay I think so my mom worked as a special ed teacher for over 20 years, recently retired a couple of years ago. I think there are benefits to separating because they they can benefit from that one-on-one time. Um, but I also think inclusion is very important.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:21

I I don't think they should be totally separate, because when they are totally separated, then you know for a fact, no matter what you label them, oh, those are the special kids.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

And once you're labeled special, um, it goes downhill.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

And also you know where the resources will and won't go.

unknown 1:06:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

And sadly, you're already labeled special before you even get to that point. So you are a kid, you already know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:50

Yes. But when usually though, it isn't until people start getting separated out that kids really hone in on that you're different and not a good way because you're leaving the classroom.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:03

But you would still see it if you're in a classroom with the smart kids. You would see you're not as good as them and that you're treated differently because you're not as quote smart.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:13

And and the and the problem comes down to teaching educators how to um handle both without showing favoritism, which is the hard thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

It is hard, but at the same time, like when you get to college, you're not singled out like that anymore. Yeah, you're integrated completely. So the ones that are gifted and the ones that are quote unquote stupid, whatever bullshit term you want to come up with, they're all stuck together in that same class. They're never separated. And yet, when it at least in my classes that I taught, I was able to get my gifted students to keep from getting them from getting bored. And I was able to bring my, you know, remedial students up with them because they were integrated, because they had to help each other. I purposefully, you know, made them kind of work together in groups so that they could feed off of each other. Just because you're not as fast in math or reading or science or whatever doesn't mean that you don't have the capacity to do something else. Maybe you'll see patterns that other people don't see because of you know having that one-on-one moment.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

And I think one of the problems with separating, like you said, the remedial, they won't ever believe they can go to college. Right. Right. They will get, I don't know, like it was always drilled into me that you're gonna go to college after graduation. And I'm glad I did. Like, I don't regret it, but like not everybody is cut out for college.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

No, and that is true. But the thing is, is that when you single them out like you were, or like I've seen other friends of mine put in the resources room and all that stuff, and singled out because they're not as fast as those college prep kids. Um, I'm using air quotes, and it's a detriment to them. I've seen family members and those kids don't go to college because they were so they were told you will never amount to anything because you're not as good as those kids. And when our kids were going through school and they weren't singled out and put into a special room or anything like that, they were just allowed, if you need to work ahead because you're faster, go ahead, work a little bit ahead. And those that you know weren't necessarily as fast, they got a little extra attention, but it didn't I my kids didn't have the same level of you yuck, you're you're special kind of thing thrown at them.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:06

And I got that from both school and home, which made it worse.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

Yeah, that that doesn't help either.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

No, I I can I can sort of relate to that. Um, my grandparents, my grandfather, who he was in Korea, he never finished school, he dropped out in the eighth grade because his dad got sick and he had to help with the farm. Um, he actually finished or got his high school equivalency or whatever while in Korea via correspondence course. And so education was so important to him. Like, to the point of like we were all really stressed about doing well. And um my grandma was is so smart, she's 91 now, she's still really smart, like she can do math in her head. I can't even do on a calculator, like I don't know, she's super smart, and she always did really well in school, and I did well in school, but I know now that I stress myself out about it, that I put a lot of pressure on myself to do well because they put so much emphasis on it. My parents, thankfully, were very much more like just do your best, and I get it too, because go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:28

My problem was I was forced so hard to do so well that I got to a point where I just didn't care anymore. Yeah, so I didn't want to try anymore.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:37

I get that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:38

Like my dad basically aced the math SATs when he took them, and he basically got 100% on them. So he always expected us to be like that, and it just got to a point where I just didn't care anymore. So now it's really, really hard for me to go to school or to do anything and keep the motivation going.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

I can tell the fact that you nobody knew that you had learning disabilities until you were basically out of school. But do you think it would have made a difference had they known?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:08

No. I don't knowing my family and the school I went to, I do not think it would have made a difference.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:15

Yes, I I think in your situation, no. But usually I think it does make a difference, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:21

Yeah, I would say in the majority of cases it probably does make a difference, but in cases like Mike's, I would say, yeah, probably not.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:28

And I think today it would make a big difference because people are much more aware of this stuff and aware of autism and learning disabilities and yada yada yada. So I think today it would make a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

But in the 90s, they didn't care that much.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:44

Yeah, I mean, I grew up in the 90s, went to, you know, all my formative years were in the 90s. And like, I don't remember knowing anyone who had autism or ADHD or whatever. Now that we're adults, they do. And it's like, oh, yeah, I didn't know anybody with ADHD or back.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:08

You're like, oh yeah, they probably had that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

Yes. I knew one person with ADD, and it was just painfully obvious. There was like no mistaking what he had. But I'm sure that there was a lot more students that were autistic in ADHD that we didn't notice at all.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:26

Yeah, mostly because we didn't have the knowledge of it, we didn't have the language of it, we didn't, and so many people will be like, Well, it didn't exist when I was yes, it did.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:35

It all it's always been around, just like LGBTQ people, and just like you know, people having polio just you know, being disabled from polio and meningitis, you know, deaf people and people and needing some sort of wheelchair that has always been and it will always be.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:56

Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, unfortunately, we are running out of time because it's getting like late. And um, but I really appreciated having you guys here. Um, tell everybody where they can find the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:11

Um, you can find the othering podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Or not sold, whatever. Otheringpodcast.com, or we're othering podcasts on most of the social media platforms. We're not on TikTok or X because they're evil, but on Instagram, Facebook, etc. We're pretty much othering podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:36

And I will have all their links in the episode notes per usual. Um, thank you, Mike and Dory, for joining me. I really appreciate it. It's been so much fun. Um, I will be thinking about you and the hair forever. That makes me laugh so hard. Uh so thank you again. And to everyone else, thanks for listening, and I will talk to you in the next one.