Episode 184: Sisters of the Bone

Two women. One diagnosis. A whole lot to bitch about.

Transcript

Laura 0:00

There was cackling.

Laura 0:21

Hello, friends and strangers. Welcome to another episode of Bad Attitudes, an uninspiring podcast about disability. I'm your host, Laura.

Laura 0:31

This week's supporter shout-out goes to Meredith R. Thank you for your continuing support. If you'd like to hear your name on a future episode, consider becoming a member on Ko-Fi. Visit ko-fi.com slash badattitudes pod for more information.

Laura 0:50

You can also support the pod by visiting our merch store at badattitudeshop.sc.com, where you'll find podcast merch and satisfyingly sarcastic designs, especially for the disabled and chronically ill communities.

Laura 1:06

For questions, comments, or ideas, visit the website at badattitudespod.com. Email badattitudespod at gmail.com or reach out on social media. Follow at BadAttitudespod on Instagram, Facebook, Threads, and Blue Sky.

Laura 1:25

As always, I want to remind you that disability is not a monolith. My experience as a disabled person is going to be different from the experiences of other disabled people. I am one voice for the disabled community, but I am not the only voice.

Laura 1:41

Guys, my guest today wrote like the best bioparagraph that I've seen, so I'm just gonna tell you about her in her own words. She is a reluctant North Carolinian whose dreams of a better world conflict terribly with her inherently pessimistic nature. Hard relate. She's a horror enthusiast, an avid reader, sometimes writer, and a crafter with more ambition than talent. Those are her words, remember that. She is a self-declared freak who's probably more ordinary than she'd like to believe. She is uninspiring in her disability, rabid in her liberal politics, a loud and bossy introvert, and a power chair user living with osteogenesis imperfecta, which either is or isn't an important thing to know about her, depending on her mood. Thank you for joining me, Ashley Howerin.

Ashley Howerin 2:33

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Laura 2:36

Oh, I'm happy to do it. If you were listening to the intro and you have been listening to this podcast for a while, you may have recognized two important words, osteogenesis imperfecta, uh, which is the condition that I also live with. Ashley and I know each other because I actually used to work with her mom at my very first and only real job right out of college. Um, and she and I met through her mom. And the thing I remember most is her mom. When when your mom found out I had OI, she looked at me and she was like, I never would have guessed you had OI.

Ashley Howerin 3:14

You're about you're about a foot taller than me, I think.

Laura 3:18

Yeah. I think so.

Ashley Howerin 3:19

Wow, yeah. Um, yeah. I was just I was I was trying to remember, I think the last time that we saw each other, we were both still in our 20s. So it's been a while. Yeah. Yeah.

Laura 3:31

What do you mean? I'm not in my 20s now. That is offensive. That is offensive.

Ashley Howerin 3:38

Sorry.

Laura 3:39

So I thought it would be kind of cool to do a sort of compare and contrast of our experiences with OI and just general disability uh bitch fest, as I put it when I pitched it to you. Um because I in my podcast I always say that disability is not a monolith. My experiences are different from other people's experiences. I am one voice, but I'm not the only voice. And so I just think it's really important to show how even though we have very similar backgrounds, our experiences are not necessarily the same. So I thought we'd just do that. And so to jump in, do you know what type of OI you have?

Ashley Howerin 4:28

I think I think that I have type two.

Laura 4:32

I think that's probably because type two is the fatal one.

Ashley Howerin 4:37

Yeah, that is what they told me that I had at the time when they told me, which was before all the genetic testing that they started doing later. But um, yeah, I was told that I had type two, which is the normally fatal kind of OI.

Laura 5:01

I think that's interesting because when I was born, they sort of automatically told my parents, yeah, it's type two. She probably won't live past.

Ashley Howerin 5:10

Yeah, that's the same, basically the same. So you're pretty much in the same.

Laura 5:25

I think they gave I think they gave my parents the optimistic two years. Mm-hmm. So you're probably in the same boat as me in that we don't really know what type we have.

Ashley Howerin 5:35

Yeah, I think that I think like I think our ages, like I think that I know, or I really to be honest, I really don't know a whole lot about the advancements that have been made.

Laura 5:48

I don't either. I mean the only thing I know for sure is that when I was born there were four types. Now there are eight types. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know which one I am.

Ashley Howerin 6:01

That's what I always say too, but I really I don't know. I'm alive, so I guess maintenance.

Laura 6:06

Yeah, I just usually fails and I just go, I'm like middle of the road, kind of like not super severe, but not like super mild either.

Ashley Howerin 6:18

So Yeah, I my like oh I hate saying it, but I'm like breaking bones kind of tapered off like around puberty with me.

Laura 6:30

That's pretty typical, is from what I've

Ashley Howerin 6:32

yeah, that's yeah, that's kind of like I've I broke my arm six years ago, which seems like you know, or I guess yeah, six years ago was the last break that I had. And that was I launched out of my wheelchair. At Stonecrest at Stonecrest Shopping Center. Oh Yeah.

Laura 6:56

You're supposed to stay in the chair.

Ashley Howerin 6:58

Wait, I know well they you know they have seatbelts on them, but uh Yeah, I don't use the seatbelt anymore. I after my after I torpedoed out of my chair, I now use it when I'm out of the house. But they're uncomfortable. They're uncomfortable, which I know sounds stupid, but

Laura 7:16

no, it's not stupid. I don't use it because I had to flip my chair a couple of times with a seatbelt, and then I'm just like the chair is just there, like on top of it.

Ashley Howerin 7:25

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

Laura 7:27

And I'm like, eh. Because to clarify for listeners, you use a power chair, I use a manual chair.

Ashley Howerin 7:34

That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, you see, you use a manual chair. Yes, I use a power chair almost exclusively. So that's you know, my my power chair had an electronic error and it stopped dead. It stopped dead and I kept going. That is horrifying.

Laura 7:54

Yeah, it was fun, it was oh my god. Yeah, because I was gonna say, I remember, okay, so I my last break was 2018. I broke my femur.

Ashley Howerin 8:06

So it was around, okay. That was not the I was kind of around the same. Yeah, and yeah, so it's been longer than I was thinking that mine was. Oh, is it now? It's 2026 now, isn't it? Okay, yeah.

Laura 8:18

I have no idea. Okay, so yeah, so yeah, because I that was the first break I had had since 2000. I hadn't broken since 2000. Um, and I I I don't know how I broke my leg. I don't it just broke. Um, I didn't even know it was broken. Um I thought it was like a pulled muscle or something. Like, and so I just was like, and then I actually did pull a muscle in that leg pretty badly. And my mom was like, You're going to the ER. And so I went to the ER, which is totally not helpful.

Ashley Howerin 9:00

That's what I was doing. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah.

Laura 9:06

But and they were like, Oh yeah, she's got a break. I'm like, okay. So I mean, I think I always say, I'm like, one of the things about OI is sometimes you have a break and you don't know.

Ashley Howerin 9:17

Yeah. Yeah, I I I always felt like I knew, but sometimes I didn't do anything about it. You know what I mean? Like it's just like, oh well. Yeah, if it was something that I didn't feel like needed treatment, I just didn't move that limb for for long. I felt like I didn't need to move it.

Laura 9:40

Did you do you have do you have rods in your legs or your arms? Oh yeah.

Ashley Howerin 9:45

Yep. I've got rods in both legs, upper and lower. I've got a pin. I've got a I've got a pin in my right forearm that they told me was gonna stay in for a few years, and it's been twenty five years now. And the last time I had an orthopedist look at it, they took an x-ray and the bone was like threaded through the pin, and he was just like, We'll just leave it, it's fine.

Laura 10:14

Yeah, I mean, honestly, as many surgeries as I'm sure you've had as I've had, I would have been like, let's just leave it.

Ashley Howerin 10:22

You had a you had spinal fusion before I did. Did you were you in high school when you had your fusion, or were you?

Laura 10:28

Um I hadn't well so that's an interesting story.

Ashley Howerin 10:32

Yeah, then you had a repair at any rate.

Laura 10:35

Yeah, I had my first spinal fusion when I was eleven.

Ashley Howerin 10:38

Um wow.

Laura 10:40

The rods broke. Which was fun.

Ashley Howerin 10:44

I remember because I talked to you. Did did I talk to you before I'd had my fusion or after?

Laura 10:51

I feel like I don't know how old were you when you had yours? You must have been quite a bit older than I was.

Ashley Howerin 10:57

Eight I was 17, 16, or 17.

Laura 11:01

I don't think we met at that point.

Ashley Howerin 11:04

No, you're right. You're right. You're right. I was in college when we met, so I don't I had already had the fusion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember talking with you. I'm sure we talked about that. Yeah, I was like, oh, that can happen. Oh, okay.

Laura 11:18

Yeah, that was that was not fun. And what made it even worse is when it happened, we were in Georgia for a family reunion. So I had to ride back to North Carolina.

Ashley Howerin 11:30

Oh my god.

Laura 11:31

And like and when they when the rods broke, it's like the bone sort of collapsed, and I ended up with um a pinched nerve in my hip. So painful. Um, so like I had to spend most of the time lying down. But then I got the full spinal fusion from essentially the base of my neck to my tailbone when I was 14. Took 12 hours. Yeah, that's all my Yeah, I got anesthesia hepatitis. It was so fun. Ugh. Me and me and anesthesia do not get along. Um, I also am uh susceptible to malignant hypothermia when I'm under anesthesia. So anytime anytime I do anything with anesthesia, I have to go to the hospital. Since I turn 45 this year and um I have to get a colonoscopy, I'm like, yay, I have to go to the hospital. Ooh. I'm just gonna like because we we grew up in the same area, like we're only a few years apart in age. Um did you go to the Miller Clinic?

Ashley Howerin 12:46

No.

Laura 12:47

Okay. Interesting because that was my primary ortho office pretty much my whole life.

Ashley Howerin 12:54

No, um, I went to the Oh God, now I can't even shit. Winston Salem the clinic there at Baptist.

Laura 13:06

I don't know.

Ashley Howerin 13:08

Um well I you know, I lived in Hickory until I was eleven. And then we moved to Knoxville, and then we moved to Charlotte when I was thirteen, I guess. So I was already established in 15. But no, I did not go.

Laura 13:31

Yeah, because I was born and raised in Charlotte, so that's what I was wondering. But you went to high school in Charlotte, right?

Ashley Howerin 13:38

I did, yeah, I went to Providence.

Laura 13:41

Oh, you went to the fancy school.

Ashley Howerin 13:43

I know I did. I went to the fancy school. I was supposed to go to South Meck, I guess. South Meck is a little bit spread out. Yeah. We were able to play the wheelchair card and get into the fancy school.

Laura 13:59

Yeah, so I went I went well, I went to two high schools and I actually did an episode about it because my sophomore year I went to Independence, which was incredibly inaccessible. Yeah, yeah, and and they were just really big assholes about it. Um and then my junior year I transferred to Butler, which was brand new, and it was amazing because it was all one level and it was all one building, and there were no trailers, and it was just um amazing. I don't know, was Providence like that?

Ashley Howerin 14:33

Like no, Providence was on two levels.

Laura 14:37

I've been to Providence, I'm pretty sure that's where I took my SAT.

Ashley Howerin 14:44

Oh god.

Laura 14:46

Could you reach the keyhole on your own?

Ashley Howerin 14:48

Yeah, I could.

Laura 14:50

Okay, yeah, yeah, because that was a problem for me um in middle school and then my sophomore year of high school because the keyhole was just like I think I'm I think I could.

Ashley Howerin 15:00

yeah, I could reach it. I was rarely on my own in the halls. I had that's another thing. Okay. See, like all through middle school, because middle school, you know, is when you start changing classes, I would have like a friend take me to class.

Laura 15:16

Yeah.

Ashley Howerin 15:17

But when we got to Charlotte, they insisted that I had an assistant that the school hired that took me to and from classes. And she she was a very nice woman, but she had another student. She had another student that she was his full-time assistant. He needed a full-time assistant, and she would very often forget me. So I would be stuck.

Laura 15:47

That's so that's so interesting because they did not if they tried to insist, I don't remember.

Ashley Howerin 15:52

I I think I don't know. I think it's because I was so small and they didn't want like they were afraid that something would happen with another student. I don't, I never really understood it, to be honest.

Laura 16:04

Like I mean, for me, like I left class like five minutes before the bell rang to avoid like the crush.

Ashley Howerin 16:11

That was what it was. They didn't want a student, another student to miss out on the last five minutes of class. Oh, please, whatever. Yeah. So that's that that's what their excuse was. Now I'm not sure.

Laura 16:25

Like, we can fuck up your education, but not the normie.

Ashley Howerin 16:28

Of course, of course. But another able-bodied student that was helping me to class couldn't possibly miss the last five minutes. So they had this assistant that would come and get me, and she forgot me regularly, or at least in my memory, it was enough to be quite embarrassing.

Laura 16:48

Once is enough to be embarrassed.

Ashley Howerin 16:49

I mean, yeah, yeah.

Laura 16:51

Like that was one of the best things for me about transferring high schools was because I got to be independent. Like I didn't have to depend on another student to like do the elevator or any like it was just that was like so much freedom for me, meant so much.

Ashley Howerin 17:08

Um, I was just gonna say, I think that was part of what the push was for me getting a power wheelchair because I got my power chair when I was 15.

Laura 17:17

Okay.

Ashley Howerin 17:18

And the school system was very supportive of me getting a power wheelchair, and part of it was because that would make it so that I could take myself to and from classes and no longer needed that assistant. And I mean, it made a huge difference. It made it so that I could go to the bathroom on my own and go to classes on my own, and you know, it made it so I was so much more independent than I had been. That's awesome.

Laura 17:47

Yeah. I know I tried a power chair. That was what they gave me when I got my first chair at four. I hated it. Even at four, I hated it. Like for me, because I mean well, this was also the 80s, so I don't know.

Ashley Howerin 18:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It took it took me a while to get, you know, like it's funny, my depth perception was so fucked. Like, you don't I mean, you know, like with a kid, you just don't think about it. Babies, they develop their depth perception when they learn how to walk. And that's just how so like I just it was bad. I ran into doorways and like just not knowing like how far away things were. It was so weird. But and I mean I still do that, but whatever. Well, yeah, I mean, come on, like I'm I'm all our houses have like wheel height in the wall. Yeah, I oh god, I know. Like we used to try to patch them, now it's just like whatever.

Laura 18:56

Oh no, not us. Like paint on the floor, whatever.

Ashley Howerin 19:00

Yeah, what's the point?

Laura 19:02

It's funny, but yeah, the when I was I think my problem, because I don't really remember it, but I think my problem was I didn't feel like I had enough control. Like, like and it didn't it didn't stop as like I would want, and it didn't turn. Like I just felt like I had more control in the manual.

Ashley Howerin 19:24

Four is really young to like have you know that kind of what I mean, like that kind of equipment. Yeah, exactly. I I um I tried out this chair at one time, it was like in in between different models that was like the seat was out front, and then the motor was kind of in the back. So I felt like I was just hanging out there. That would just that would really mess with your device. I was like, no, I know it was so bad. I was like, no, thank you.

Laura 19:58

I hate trying new chairs. Like, I really, I really need a new chair. My chair is like almost 20 years old, and I hate I I hate doing the new chair thing because it always feels so foreign and like and maybe that's just me, but something bad always happens. Something always happens, yeah. And I'm just like, I don't want to do it, but I know I need to, and it's just of course you know the whole the whole insurance, you know, oh that too, and then I don't know if you saw this, I saw this yesterday. Dr. O says they're putting a moratorium for six months on uh new like Medicaid Medicare enrollments for durable medical equipment, which includes like wheelchairs, walkers, hospital beds.

Ashley Howerin 20:52

For for the vendors, right? I think it's I don't I didn't really understand. I think it it it doesn't matter. I mean, it's still gonna it's still fucked up, but totally, yeah. Yeah, I think it's for like enrollment of the vendors, so it'll make it so that the process for the patients is it's already hard. I mean it's already hard. Yeah, it's already like okay, when my last chair I, you know, applied, I used Medicaid, and I applied to get this chair, and I was denied, and the denial came from a pulmonologist. That was the doctor that they used. I wish people could see my face right now. Review my case. Pulmonologist. So I had to appeal it. And I mean the it once I appealed it it was not that big a deal. I mean, you know, but it was just such um it just made it take twice. It's just moralizing as hell. Like, just why do I have to beg for this thing that I can't live without? I'm just sitting here like a pulmonologist.

Laura 22:13

Well, I'm just like a pulmonologist is still a doctor. They still went to medical school.

Ashley Howerin 22:19

Sure.

Laura 22:20

They can still read, you know, medical instructions.

Ashley Howerin 22:23

It's not that my wheelchair was not medically necessary. I guess I'm just I don't know, I'm just supposed to sit on the floor.

Laura 22:30

No, you gotta fly.

Ashley Howerin 22:31

I'm gonna crawl around on the floor. I mean, when I was little little, that's what I did. And like I rolled, I rolled like a little like barrel rolled across the floor. That's it. Oh, I scooted on my butt. The last time, yeah, I rolled and I was fast as hell. The last time I tried to do it, I was in my 20s and it made me so dizzy. I was like, how did I get around like this?

Laura 22:59

Okay, so let's this is not OI related. This is just age related. Like, if I get dizzy now, look out because I'm probably gonna puke. Like what happened? It's like people, we I used to do this for fun.

Ashley Howerin 23:16

I know. My mom has vertigo, and I just feel like I'm gonna have to.

Laura 23:20

Oh my god, does that I don't like I just like even like if I watch a YouTube video that's too jumpy, I start to get nauseous. I'm like, what is happening?

Ashley Howerin 23:34

I'm not I'm not there yet, but I'll probably be there soon. I'm just like because this I don't like I don't really get I mean I get car sick if I try to read in the car. Like I I've never been able to read in the car. Even like if I read too many billboards in a row, it's just bad, it's like no, don't do that. Yeah, that's don't do that. That's rough. Not when I'm driving, but only when I'm riding, but like don't do that. So like I can't really text in the car if I'm riding. Like, I'm just gonna chill, which is fine, because I'd rather just chill in the car anyway. So you've only had one spinal fusion surgery, right?

Laura 24:11

We took Yeah, I had the one, and it was the full from the top of my whole spine, yeah. All the way down. Yeah. I mean, I think my doctor was trying to maintain some flexibility. Yeah.

Ashley Howerin 24:25

Yeah. I I don't I don't got none. Then I kissed the five. Oh, me neither. Not anymore. None. Well do you do you remember what your curvature was?

Laura 24:34

Do you know what it was? It was it was I mean it wasn't like I'm pretty sure it was less than 50 degrees. It had to have been less than 50 degrees, because that would be insane.

Ashley Howerin 24:48

Mine was more than 50. Mine was like, yeah, mine was like, I think mine was close to 90.

Laura 24:55

Wow.

Ashley Howerin 24:55

It was like almost a full bend. Yeah.

Laura 24:58

Yeah, mine is not that intense, but it was still pretty significant. Um my thing is I haven't really had a flexible spine since I was seven, because that's when I started wearing a back brace.

Ashley Howerin 25:11

I'm like, I all I had a back brace, but I was I didn't wear it.

Laura 25:18

I wore it because my mom made me.

Ashley Howerin 25:22

Oh yeah. Yeah, I know how that is.

Laura 25:27

I feel like Fern will listen to this and be like, what do you mean you didn't wear your back brace?

Ashley Howerin 25:32

I don't know. I I had mine like after I had the fusion. Oh, I wore it then too. I wore it so I mostly wore it when I went back to school. You know, I was doing half days when I went back to school because I was a senior in high school when I had my fusions. Oh yeah. I was trying to I was trying to graduate. Trying to get the hell out. Yeah, I was trying to get the hell out of there. While like I couldn't I, you know, my chair, the back of my chair will lay back. So I was like almost prone in my senior English class. Like, will you get me out of here? Well, yeah, I was um opioid pain medicine.

Laura 26:18

Yeah, I actually flipped my chair my senior year, so I spent most of my senior year at home, like and like did the few classes I needed to graduate, and I was like, and I I mean it sucked, but also I'm a little bit grateful because I was signed up for five AP classes that year.

Ashley Howerin 26:42

Me too. I had I dropped that, I dropped like I had AP Latin, whatever. Why? I had a physics, an AP physics course, two uh there was two uh AP English, something else. I don't know. I dropped that. I went into that physics class, like after having missed a month of it, and it was like it was like Greek. I had no idea what they were talking about. I'm like, I dropped this class.

Laura 27:11

Yeah, don't believe me. And like, and it also like got me out of the you're a few years younger than me. Did you have to do the senior project?

Ashley Howerin 27:19

Yep.

Laura 27:20

That the school okay, so I got out of that too.

Ashley Howerin 27:23

Oh, that's no fair. I had to do mine.

Laura 27:27

I mean, I think I had to write a paper. I had to write a paper. Uh-huh. But like, I mean, like you said, I launched myself out of my chair. Like, like, I don't have to do the still by project.

Ashley Howerin 27:38

It it happens, man.

Laura 27:40

Yeah. It's it's it sucks so much. It really did. But also, I was I was I was done with high school. I was ready to move on. Yeah. Like like high school was rough.

Ashley Howerin 27:53

Yeah. Yeah. I had my a friend of mine had had asked me when our 20th anniversary came. She's like, Are you going? I'm like, hell no. Hell no, I'm not going to our reunion. I'm sorry. No. No, I don't want to see you people. Like, I wouldn't even like, I just I don't know.

Laura 28:17

No. I mean, the thing about that is one of the downsides to transferring. Um, the people I was at Independence with are people I'd been in school with since like seventh grade. So like I would have wanted to go to Independence's reunion before I would have wanted to go to mine.

Ashley Howerin 28:34

Sure.

Laura 28:34

Because I just didn't have that many connections. And I like the school experience itself was much better, but I really did miss my friends and like the people I knew. So I mean, six of one kind of a you know pro con on both sides. So, you know, whatever.

Ashley Howerin 28:53

Also, just like what I'm like, are we we're old enough to do a 20? Please no, just stop.

Laura 29:00

No. Oh my god, it'll be like in like three years, it'll be my 30th. Oh my god.

Ashley Howerin 29:06

Yeah. Stop it.

Laura 29:09

This is offensive.

Ashley Howerin 29:11

No, I'm sorry.

Laura 29:12

This is offensive. Sorry. I'm old and I am offended by it. Like, I I feel so bad when I'm like, man, people in their 40s are so old. And now I'm like, oh. Sorry. I was so wrong. My bad. I know it's so weird because like some of my friends have very young kids, but some of them have kids that have graduated from college. Yep. And I'm over here like I'm 44 and I'm still too young to be a parent. I'm not gonna do that. Anyway. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Did your mom ever send you to school with a broken bone? Like you were like, this hurts, and she's like, go school or whatever, anyway. Because my mom did.

Ashley Howerin 30:07

No, not not like that. Not like, you know, we're not gonna deal with this. And yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Laura 30:13

No, it wasn't it wasn't like it wasn't like she wasn't dealing, she just because like I didn't say I think it's right. I was like, oh, my leg kind of hurts. I don't want to go to school. That kind of thing.

Ashley Howerin 30:24

Um I don't remember like remember doing that. I remember being like, you know, I'm sick and I don't want to go, I just don't I I definitely remember going to school with with broken bones and being on pain medicine and like having the yeah. But you know, I remember I remember like I guess I'm trying to remember if the teaching assistant would have given me pain medicine or if I would have to go to the office? I don't know. But I definitely remember.

Laura 31:01

Oh, I definitely went with like casts and oh yeah, yeah. Pillows propped up to

Ashley Howerin 31:09

Did you ever have like the bar cast with your feet separate? Like bars.

Laura 31:14

Like the body cast thing?

Ashley Howerin 31:16

Um No, like the leg cast with the bar between your legs.

Laura 31:20

I had that I had that as part of a body cast. Um god when I was really little, like five. Um, I had that twice. That's when they did the rods in my femurs, I think. That they did that. Um so yeah, I did have that. It but I didn't go to school like with that cast because it was a body cast.

Ashley Howerin 31:43

I must have had one that went up over my hips when they did the rods in my femurs. I just don't remember it. I was like five, so I don't remember.

Laura 31:55

I remember. I re I don't remember a lot, but I remember that.

Ashley Howerin 31:58

Yeah, I remember the spica cast with the bar between, and I did go to school with uh cast with the bar between my legs, but I was able to sit, so it wasn't a full body cast.

Laura 32:10

The only time I had the that I remember having the bar between my legs was with the body cast. And I think that I think that honestly was more for my parents, so they could pick me up easier. Like, you know, like pick you up under your arms and then just grab the handle. Um, yeah, it's that's fun. But yeah, when I was in seventh grade, my leg was hurting. I was like, my leg hurts. I really don't want to my mom was like, go school, go school. Went to school first period. I'm like, something ain't right. I gotta go call my mom. And of course the teacher was just like dumb as bricks. Because like this was the 90s. You couldn't just call people, you had to page. Like I had to page my mom on her pager. Yeah. She would call the school back, and he's like, What do they do? Do you go like call I'm like, just let me go. Just let me go.

Ashley Howerin 33:10

Just let me go. Just just let me let me go. And it's just it I didn't. I think I was more I think I was more likely to hide from my mother when I had broken things. I did that a f a few times.

Laura 33:24

Really?

Ashley Howerin 33:25

Like I did mm-hmm. I got kicked by a boy by accident. It was an accident. Okay, well, yeah, I mean he probably was a little asshole, but it was an accident, and I did not tell anyone because I didn't want to miss out on like going to I think it was summer program then. Because I went to like an after-school summer program, so I didn't want to miss out on that. Yeah. And then another time our dog like, you know, ran past me and clipped my leg. And I hid that because I don't know if I thought like she would make it so that I couldn't have the dog running around me or what, which wouldn't, you know, wouldn't happen. Like, not like I got in trouble when I broke things. I don't know why I was like that. But yeah, I think I would be more likely to have done that.

Laura 34:31

Oh no. I was I was in like I was in pain. I was like, this is sure.

Ashley Howerin 34:36

I mean, like, if it was a severe break that I was in real bad pain, sure, of course I'm I'm screaming. That's what you know, people you've I've had doctors and other people tell me, like, oh, you know, sometimes people with OI have such a high pain threshold.

Laura 34:52

Oh, you don't, because I do.

Ashley Howerin 34:55

I don't think so. I mean, I maybe I do now, but as a as a young person I did not. That's funny. Yeah, and I got in such I I don't know. I like at the doctor when I would get X-rays, I wouldn't let anyone touch me. They had to let me like I already I knew all the positions that I need to fit in to get but I wouldn't let anyone touch me. I would scream and scream.

Laura 35:29

When I was little, like when I had so my orthopedist was my orthopedist um essentially from the day I was born until the day he died, basically. Even though I really I really didn't see him after I was like 17, 18, because I didn't have any breaks. So I didn't know so like so I had like all like all the x-ray techs and stuff knew me. And I knew them and I was comfortable with them, but I was still like, nope, let me do it.

Ashley Howerin 36:02

Yeah, don't don't touch me. Don't touch me.

Laura 36:06

Like it was so funny because like it it really sort of emphasized to me how long it had been since I saw an ortho because I went and this was several years ago, because I was having problems with like my ankle swelling and stuff.

Ashley Howerin 36:23

I think you messaged me about didn't you message me to ask if I knew an orthopedist?

Laura 36:28

Yeah, that was more recently though. This was like

Ashley Howerin 36:31

Yeah, was that okay, was this the last one? This was like Yeah, and I'm like, I don't know.

Laura 36:35

This was like pre-COVID, like this was okay, all right. Um, but anyway, I went and like and I don't know if the X-ray techs had never met someone with OI or whatever, but they're like I'm like in there getting X-rayed, and you know, they're behind a little wall, and they're sort of like like to each other, and they're like, So, like, did they put the rods in your legs to like make them straight? And I'm just like no. So then, so then I'm like having to explain the mechanics of my bones break a lot. And it's like, and they're like, oh, and I'm just like, and like my mom came back in and I just looked at her like, oh my god.

Ashley Howerin 37:27

Like it's like Yeah, the last the last break that I had, you know, I went to the ER and it was the you know, I hadn't broken anything since probably 2000, around the same time that you did. And I was not aware of this, but it seems to me that now with breaks, they have like pre-made splints that they use for things more often than they are making casts and stuff, and I'm too small for those things. Really? So they didn't know what the fuck to do. It was like these doctors, they didn't know what to do in the ER. They just were like, they had to go and get someone that could figure out how to make something that would fit me. Because it was just like, give me some plaster and some water, I'll take care of it. Exactly. Like, give me give me some morphine and some plaster, send me home. But like they had this flint that was pre-made, and they were just like, Here, please put this on you, and I was like, it's not gonna fit.

Laura 38:38

Yeah, when I went the last time when I went to the ER, the doctor I feel a tiny bit bad for him, a tiny bit, because both my parents were there and my sister. And like, let me let me tell you something. If you need somebody to fight a battle for you in the medical field, call me, I will let you borrow my sister because she will tell me what to ask. Um, but like he was like they had to because he wasn't an orthopedist, so they had to like call an orthopedist. And the orthopedist, of course, doesn't know anything about me. And he just like, we'll just do this. And they got one of those, it wasn't a pre-made splint, it was like it was like it was splint material, but like when it warms up, you like form it to the leg or whatever, and like it hardens. But it was just gonna be like on the back of my leg. Well, the thing is I'm like in a wheelchair, like my leg is gonna be sticking out like the you know, like a Nazi salute or something. But like the thing is the back of the splint hit the back of my leg exactly opposite where the break actually was. And I was just like, this is not gonna work. And they're just like, well, this is what they said. I'm like, this is not gonna work. Well, this is what I it's not gonna work. And finally I was like, I'm not, I'm not gonna wear it. Period. I said screw it. Screw it. I just wanna go home. Like I felt like like it was so annoying because there was also like right before I left, there was a shift change. So there were new nurses, like when I was ready to leave. And there's like three of them standing around looking at me on the gurney, like, how are how are we gonna get her back into her chair? Like, and I was like, Well, you could just one of you get under my arms and one of you get under my legs and like you know, transfer me. And they're just like, huh? And I just went, screw it. And I literally just sort of threw myself from the gurney into my chair. I was like, no, we're not, and I'm like, I'm not wearing this thing. And the nurse was like, Well, I'll go check with the doctor that it's okay. And I'm like, I don't care if he says it's okay or not, I'm not gonna wear it. Like, it was just it was so frustrating. And then when I finally went to see an orthopedist about it, he was like, Yeah, you really didn't need to do anything because of the rod, you know, it acts as like an internal cast. And I was like, Yeah, and I was like, Mom, we could have just stayed home.

Ashley Howerin 41:26

Yeah, why did you make me do this?

Laura 41:30

So it was it was fun.

Ashley Howerin 41:37

I when oh my god, when I the last time I was in the ER, every single doctor was hotter than the last. It was like we were in a TV, and I'm like, they'd cut my clothes off, and I'm like, Yeah, I was it's so I was shaved and like and I'm like, oh why are these yeah, the x-ray technician at the orthopedist, the last orthopedist that I went to, I had gone to high school with.

Laura 42:11

That was oh no. Oh no. I would have been going, I need somebody else.

Ashley Howerin 42:19

Yeah, and he was happening, he was in the class under mine, so it wasn't quite as bad as like if it had been, you know, a classmate or whatever. But you know the nature of like everybody knows me that I don't know them, you know how that's like yeah, yeah.

Laura 42:36

Like I wasn't actually popular, I was just the only disabled person in school, so everybody knew who I was.

Ashley Howerin 42:42

I have people come up to me all the time, half the time they do not know me, they think I'm someone else. And the other half, like, they know me, but I have no idea who they are. And I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't know who you are. I'm sure you're a nice person. Please leave me alone.

Laura 43:01

Please go away. I don't like people.

Ashley Howerin 43:04

Please. I'm just trying to I'm trying to shop, leave me alone.

Laura 43:09

Thank God for online shopping. I have gotten so antisocial.

Ashley Howerin 43:15

I know. I'm just like, I don't like people. You you drive a car with with pedal extensions, pedal extensions, yeah.

Laura 43:22

Yeah. You have hand controls, all right.

Ashley Howerin 43:25

Uh but I'm not driving anymore. No, I don't drive now. I really need yeah. I ran that van into the ground. And now yeah, and now we have a van with lift, but my mother is driving it. It was just uh it was such a like constant stress keeping up with that van and everything breaking on it all the time. All of the electronics on that van, and then constant. Constantly being badgered by the D MV, which I'm sure you see, okay, so I know, okay. Did you last did you finally get them to leave you alone? So okay.

Laura 44:12

So when I got my license originally, like when I was 16, originally they were like, okay, you have to come in every year and be tested, which was like insane. So then at some point, I think when I was in college, I got an examiner who was like, This is crazy. You're a great driver, you don't need to come in all the time.

Ashley Howerin 44:38

So so they were giving you the road test every year?

Laura 44:41

Pretty much, yeah. Like they were like, you have to come in every year. Like this is insane. And so for a good, I mean, I mean, for a good 20 years, I didn't really have a problem. The only thing was, of course, I always have to go into the DMV to renew my license. I can't do it online because I have restrictions. Um to drive with pedal extensions and stuff. But the last time I got my license renewed, so we went to this little podunk DMV because everybody's like, oh my god, it's so fast. Right? Yeah.

Speaker 4 45:20

And now the thing is, I'm my birthday's in the middle of summer. So of course there's all these kids who are getting their license for the first time or getting their permit and have to do the driver's test. So it wasn't fast. But also, I get up to the table and like I need to, you know, renew my license, and the examiner's like, Are you prepared to take a driving test today? No. Like, I didn't drive my car. I was with my mom. We drove her car. I can't drive her car. And he's like, Well, we have the right. I'm like, You don't need to. Like, I have no tickets, I have no, there's nothing in my driving record that indicates that I'm anything but a good driver. Like, I don't have vision issues, like, give me the vision test, I'll take the vision test, like, totally fine. And he's like, Well, we have and I'm like, screw this, and left. And as we're going home, we passed by the Monroe DMV. And so we're just like, you know what? I gotta get it done. I gotta get my license renewed. Um, so we went in there, no problem. No problem, yeah. Also, was the woman was the examiner at the Monroe DMV a woman? Yes, she was.

Ashley Howerin 46:38

Yeah.

Laura 46:39

I was I mean, it was just and like, and I'll be honest, I don't I I haven't driven in a while because I mean COVID happened and there's nowhere to go.

Ashley Howerin 46:52

Yeah.

Laura 46:53

And then like I work from home. I don't really have to go out and about a whole lot, you know. So I haven't really but I want to get back to driving because I miss it a lot. I really enjoy driving. But I know when I miss when that happened, your mom said something to me about they gave you such a hard time because of your astigmatism or something.

Ashley Howerin 47:19

Well they I every year I would I had to do a medical review, so I had to get a doctor to fill out paperwork every single year to tell them that I had OI and I still had OI. It ain't going anywhere. And that no, it's not going anywhere, but that I was able to drive and I had been tested and trained, specially trained to drive. And then I also every single year had to get my eyes checked. Yeah. By a doctor, not just a little like an ophthalmologist? Yeah, like I was they were an optometrist. They were I and I don't have my vision, it's not that bad.

Laura 48:11

Right.

Ashley Howerin 48:11

It's it's yeah, it's just like I've got an astigmatism, and that's basically it. My vision is not terrible. Because they were like lumping that in as part of my disability, I guess. I guess it was like every single year. They were like, We need this form filled out by your optometrist. So I was having to go and you know, make an appointment and pay for an appointment with two doctors every year to keep my driver's license.

Laura 48:47

Like, and the thing that really got me about the last time I got, and I'm so annoyed because I have to get it renewed next year, and I'm like, oh fuck. But anyway, the thing that really annoyed me was that the at the time my grandmother, who was like 89-90 at the time, went in there, renewed her license. Woman could barely see over the steering wheel. Like, no problem. Like, are you kidding me? This woman, like she was my grandmother. I I loved her because she was my grandmother. But oh my god, like she couldn't, she couldn't sit.

Ashley Howerin 49:29

She's like, you know, maybe maybe maybe time to put a way the keys.

Laura 49:36

She should she should not have been driving. She should not have been driving. She had to walk away, but she should not have been driving. And like, yeah, but like also nobody wanted to have to deal with her, so we're like, yeah, so just like bye, grandma to block. Good luck.

Ashley Howerin 49:53

Yep, good luck to all the people on the road. So yeah, that really that really irked me because I'm like, like, I know you just get out renewals willy-nilly. Like, yeah, like I'm very glad it didn't last very long. And like that one examiner was like, this is nuts. Like, you shouldn't have to do this. Because I mean, she was probably like, I shouldn't have to do this. So yeah. On the on the forms for my doctor, every time it would be like, Do you suggest that your patient continues with these reviews yearly? And every time he would say, No, and they would ignore it every time. Yeah. It's like here I go again. Here I go. Oh, nope.

Laura 50:41

So did you do driver's ed like in high school or did you do it later?

Ashley Howerin 50:46

No, no, I did not learn to drive, or I didn't get my license until I was in I was in grad school, so I was 23, 24, I guess. And I did it through um I guess voc rehab. So they hired an instructor who was a total asshole and did not seem to understand that I had never ridden in the front seat of a car before. Wait, I had never really because I'm too short.

Laura 51:18

Yeah, I guess because you're so small. Yeah. Like tell tell the people how tall you are.

Ashley Howerin 51:23

I mean, I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure I'm three feet tall. Like that's yeah, that's like an overestimate. I'm probably like two foot something. It's like paper. Like if you draw a line. Yeah, that's a little bit more.

Laura 51:37

Like it's like I'm like, if you measure from my long leg, I'm four feet tall.

Ashley Howerin 51:42

Like that's what I was gonna say. I think you're about a foot taller than me. Yeah.

Laura 51:46

Ish. Ish. I don't know. I mean four feet is. That's what I'm saying.

Ashley Howerin 51:50

It's like it's it's laying me laying on a table and then drawing a line on a piece of paper and then measuring that. Like, that's how yeah.

Laura 51:59

So I'm like, if you measure the long leg.

Ashley Howerin 52:02

And I I mean like I'm being I'm being hyperbolic by saying that I've never ridden in the front seat of the car. I had probably ridden in the front seat of the car, but when I did, I couldn't see over the dash.

Laura 52:14

So, you know, I like that just never occurred to me. Like, everybody can learn.

Ashley Howerin 52:21

I don't think it had occurred to him either. So, like, you know, um I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, but that was his whole job was to teach me. You know, like that was what he was supposed to be doing. And he just like he was he thought that I wasn't like I didn't want to drive, like that was like I wasn't trying hard or whatever. I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing, and I'm nervous as hell, and you're an asshole. Like, what do you expect?

Laura 52:52

I mean, did they was it on a van that you learned, like a accessible van? It was a huge van.

Ashley Howerin 52:58

It was like a big old conversion van. Like the conversion van? It was like the big old conversion whale that I'm like, and I'm three feet tall in this little like, you know, booster seat, like yeah, it was like and so they got me another instructor, and he was very nice, and I learned how to drive, and it was fine. And I enjoyed driving, but like the expense of getting a new van with all the electronics on it and the stress of keeping up with it. Yeah, and I'm definitely see that it's just I mean, like, it's and they're they're it's it's kind of weird. It seems like when I got my van, I was like in this little sweet spot, and it seems like they're more reluctant now to do those type of conversions than they were 20 years ago.

Laura 53:54

Interesting.

Ashley Howerin 53:55

Yeah, it's just kind of weird.

Laura 53:57

I don't know if how do you how did you go about it? Like, was it through like a company?

Ashley Howerin 54:03

It was through Voc Rehab that I got that first van? So, like, and you know, you do that once and you can never do it again, they're not gonna pay for another fan.

Laura 54:15

Right, right, right, right. So, like, yeah, so I would have to go through a private charity or you know, whatever if I wanted to do it again. Yeah, because when so my sister has a Jeep and my mom has an SUV, and we got like seat lifts, like just little platforms that I transfer her onto and it lifts me into the and so we did that through uh just like a company that does it, like you know. Um, and that I mean my sist the one over my sister's car has been in there for almost 20 years. It's like, I mean, it's still it's slow as molasses now, but yeah, it still works. Um, so yeah, I was just wondering, because like I said, like we looked, I looked at a van like when I was 16, like and you know, starting to drive and look, and I was like, and I was like, I really don't want to drive a van. I really don't, I really don't.

Ashley Howerin 55:14

I yeah, I would love like to drive something small, you know, like more fitting my own size. One thing. Well, I never I didn't drive from my wheelchair, I transferred into a seat that swiveled around. And I I was driving with the full hand controls, the gas brake hand controls and electronic everything, the touchpad, which is why it's so expensive and why it's so obviously everything is breaks on.

Laura 55:50

When it everything when it breaks car shield yeah, car shield. Sure. Yeah, I know I'm being facetious, yes. Yes, yes, yes. That's the yeah, because so when I learned I had to wait for them to get a special car from Raleigh because I did it through the school system. Um, so I had to wait like and I was annoyed because I had to wait till like August. I turned 15 in June and I couldn't get my permit and I was pissed. It's like I want to drive. Um, but like the instructor was really good. She was very kind and like, but like, oh my god, I hated driving with hand controls so much. Like, I remember the first the first well the thing I didn't like the most was that you know, the suicide knob thing that they put on the that takes all the tension out of the wheel.

Ashley Howerin 56:52

Yeah, so like I had zero tension, zero tension on my wheel, and oh yeah,

Laura 56:57

you can just whoop you just and so like you're trying not to oversteer, but then you like understeer, and then you're like, I'm trying to turn, and oh, there's the oncoming traffic. Should have turned more. So yeah, it was very like I did not enjoy that. So like I really I think I really got lucky in the car that we found. Um, I got it right before I went to college. It's a two-door coupe, so like the doors are wider, so I can transfer and get my chair in and out easier. Um, and it's still going strong, even though I don't really drive now. It's sitting in the driveway. Like the worst thing about it is like the ceiling is like coming down like the fabric.

Ashley Howerin 57:38

That's how mine was. Mine, the fabric would like touch the top of my head.

Laura 57:43

It's like it needs a haircut.

Ashley Howerin 57:47

Yeah.

Laura 57:48

Yeah. So yeah, that's but yeah, the I'm I'm gonna be interested to see what happens next year when I go to renew because one, the DMV is so busy now. Like you can't not, you can't not get an appointment. And of course, I I don't I don't have a real ID.

Ashley Howerin 58:07

I just have like a regular I got a real ID last year, and it was I had to get my appointment like it was like four months in advance.

Laura 58:17

Yeah, it was crazy. So now I'm like, do I just go ahead and get the real ID when I go to renew? Like, I don't even know if I can do that.

Ashley Howerin 58:25

Like they're like, are we gonna actually need those? What's is there any fucking point to them? Like what yeah. I don't I don't know. I don't know, nobody knows. Um like we we have to get real IDs and we won't be able to vote. And I'm like, I don't think that's true, but okay.

Laura 58:43

Well, is she talking about so apparently the Save Act did not go through?

Ashley Howerin 58:48

Like this was a couple of years ago when they first started pushing the real ID and they were acting like it was gonna be mandatory for voting, and then they changed it at the last meeting. It's just who knows?

Laura 59:02

I mean who knows?

Ashley Howerin 59:03

I mean save act is stalled for now, I guess.

Laura 59:07

Yeah, they they couldn't the Senate couldn't didn't have enough votes or whatever. That's what I'm that's what I'm seeing anyway. Like we'll see what happens. Um, it'll be but yeah, it'll be interesting. One, I gotta go vote on Tuesday in the primary, yeah, because I don't trust mail-in voting anymore. No. I was because I was using mail-in voting for a while because it was just like yeah, it's just I mean, it's not hard to vote, like to but like at least when I did early voting, they try to cram so many people in, and it's like so inaccessible.

Ashley Howerin 59:48

I think that I have found that it's easier and less people when you vote on the day.

Laura 59:57

Yeah, I agree.

Ashley Howerin 59:58

Instead of early voting. Early voting is always so much busier and it'll be in places that are not super accessible. I'm lucky that my voting place is close and it's relatively accessible.

Laura 1:00:16

Yeah, same, same. It's um my my precinct is like literally the school I went to from kindergarten to third grade. Like it's in the neighborhood. Like it's you know, so yeah, it's um, yeah, it's it's you're right, it's definitely much easier as a disabled person to vote on election day. Um so I I don't know.

Ashley Howerin 1:00:38

I don't know.

Laura 1:00:40

Uh I don't know. I mean, I'm gonna keep voting, but I'm like, yeah, I'm I'm a little I'm a little concerned. I talk about politics a lot on the podcast if you haven't listened. I'm like, yeah, we're fucked.

Ashley Howerin 1:00:58

Yeah, I'm not surprised about that, about you. I would not. I am also a radical liberal. Yes, you talk about politics, what well it's like I never had a guess.

Laura 1:01:12

I mean the well, I mean, and I do try to, you know, how it dovetails with being disabled and like and this right now, especially it's like if you're disabled and you're not paying attention to politics, like you are in a rude awakening.

Ashley Howerin 1:01:32

I I don't understand. I mean, I do understand how people can live with their head in the sand. I I mean I get it. It's it's a happier place if you're not paying attention to what's going on.

Laura 1:01:47

But I just can't I I don't Well you know, the thing is like when Obama was president, I didn't think about politics as much. Because I didn't have to. Because the people in charge were like competent. Yeah.

Ashley Howerin 1:02:07

It wasn't it wasn't a complete bombardment of horrible things happening constantly. Yeah, it wasn't new what new ridiculous thing has this person said today.

Laura 1:02:21

Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't like every day I woke up going what fresh hell. Yeah like which is what it is now, and like and I mean I wish I could distraction technique and what what's happening now? He's in the Epstein Files, guys.

Ashley Howerin 1:02:42

He's in the Epstein files. Everything else is a distraction. Distraction everybody uh we care so much about the Epstein files. No, wait, we we don't we don't care about those.

Laura 1:02:54

We we definitely we're gonna, you know, but it's a hoax. Yeah it's a hoax. It's a hoax. You're mentioned in one million times.

Ashley Howerin 1:03:09

I I mean I really I did get they're just talking about they're just talking about what a great guy he is, one million times. What do you mean?

Laura 1:03:17

What do you mean? I r I really got into it with someone on a friend's Facebook post yesterday because she was because you know she was like, he's never been convicted of rape or pedophilia. And I'm like, first of all, he was never convicted of rape because of the statute of limitations, he was civilly convicted, he was found civilly liable, which means if it had been a criminal case, he would have been convicted. And I don't think there should be statute of limitations for sexual assault cases, but that's another that's a that's uh and then I was like but then I was like, and the only reason he hasn't been convicted of pedophilia is because it's hard to be convicted when they keep hiding the evidence. And she's like, Well, you just keep telling yourself they're hiding the evidence. So then I was like, I don't have to tell myself, and I just shared this like list of like five links of like DOJ high you know uh didn't produce these files. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure she ignored them all because none of them were for file.

Ashley Howerin 1:04:29

It doesn't people that want to think that way, it's very difficult to Yeah, I know you can't outlaw it.

Laura 1:04:38

It doesn't matter. Yeah, I know, but it just it's so like because it star it started out being about the hockey team and about how about how the women um like she uh my friend had said you know the women refuse to go to the White House. It was a hard no. And she came back, she was like, Well, I know you won't like this source, because of course it was a Fox News link and I didn't click on it because I'm not giving them anything. And she's like, But this doesn't sound like a hard no. And I was like, like, do you understand what diplomacy is?

Ashley Howerin 1:05:20

No, no, thank you.

Laura 1:05:22

I guess maybe that's not a hard enough no. I think they said like like they it I think they said something about the timing, like it was bad timing or something. Yeah, like and I'm like, do you not understand diplomacy? Yeah, like like they would be ridiculously stupid to be like, fuck you, yeah, yeah, go fuck yourself. Like I'm just like, come on. I don't I don't I don't I don't know, it hurts me physically that people are still like defending him and like well, I still think he has the best interest of country at heart like are you fucking kidding me he doesn't have the best interests of anybody but himself at heart no and that's just it's so glaringly obvious but anyway it's a cult and like if you want like look up the bite model if you don't believe me uh.

Laura 1:06:28

This has gotten so off track what track what I know there was one other thing I wanted to ask you if you had experienced uh because when I was about four I broke my femur this was before I had all my rods and stuff so this was like a pretty intense break um and I went to the I went to the ortho on call doctor and uh like you know how pain radiates and like you like you might feel the pain somewhere else than where the actual injury is and I was like yeah my knee hurts I was again four and he's like okay so they only x-rayed my knee the break was above the knee they sent me home in a splint I went into shock because I had not I had broken above the knee and like the next day my ortho like dreamed him out.

Ashley Howerin 1:07:24

Yes and like have you ever had a doctor just like totally yes um but I don't remember it. When I was two I guess I broke my back and it took them a really long time to find the break because they x-rayed my legs and my I think they x-rayed my arms too because I was holding my body like this you know I didn't know where the pain was coming from. So it's a very similar type of thing to what you're talking about.

Laura 1:08:08

But also you were too you probably couldn't even really verbalize.

Ashley Howerin 1:08:11

Yeah I don't I really at that point I probably could say that I hurt I'm sure I could but you're right I couldn't you know describe exactly where the pain was coming um I mean sure I've had I mean I'm sure we could do a whole other hour on just like doctors. Yeah I had a pet when I was maybe six or so put the bar on a cast that I had on my arm without holding my arm and my arm dropped and I broke this part right above right above like smooth like I'm I'm getting out of a cast to get right back into a cast I've had that happen but that was a nurse I guess or uh um you know and it wasn't a doctor but still they all it all counts I mean sure I've had all kinds of stuff where where you know I've had me telling a doctor something and them just you know thinking something else that they just don't listen to my experience that I know what I'm talking about.

Laura 1:09:37

So are you would you consider yourself a good patient or a bad patient? Because I'm a bad patient.

Ashley Howerin 1:09:43

I'm a bad I'm a bad okay

Laura 1:09:45

I'm like I got a good heart but this mouth man

Ashley Howerin 1:09:49

angry yelling patients yeah that's

Laura 1:09:54

I um sarcasm me and sarcasm

Ashley Howerin 1:09:59

sure um I I don't know like I guess no I'm a bad patient I still am I know maybe I've gotten better and I'm like no no I haven't gotten better

Laura 1:10:12

I just don't want to put up with the bullshit like I don't either I don't want to I'm like I am in pain I already know what's going on just let you know I really appreciate the doctors or the medical professionals who like when I go in and I say I think this is what I have and they're like okay that sounds exactly exactly and

Ashley Howerin 1:10:33

I you've come across those and I've definitely come across nurses and x ray technicians and all that that are you know that like that I know what I'm doing and I already know what to expect and they're you know we get to joke around and stuff but yeah I think that oftentimes nurses and you know technicians are more likely to not get insulted maybe

Laura 1:11:12

I hope they don't get insulted because I'm kind of a bitch but especially if I'm in pain like I am just not oh yeah when I flipped my chair in college and they took me to the ER I scared the doctor off like he he was like he came in and he starts asking me stupid stupid questions like so Laura how long have you been in a wheelchair so Laura how many bones have you broken yeah I literally went how many are there no I'm like I don't fucking know

Ashley Howerin 1:11:52

I don't know I used to always say that I lost track at a hundred I don't know yeah we stopped counting yeah I I don't know I just recently I just recently had to do another disability review for Medicaid

Laura 1:12:10

Me too for Social Security

Ashley Howerin 1:12:12

yeah social security Medicaid yeah yeah yeah yeah so so you had to do that too recently did you get I mean like in the last okay me too yeah in the last year yeah yeah they must be sending out them letters um I just got so where was did you have to go in to no be a doctor today?

Laura 1:12:33

No I told them I wouldn't they asked me they're like are you willing to see I'm like no you can get all the information you need from my doctor

Ashley Howerin 1:12:41

I should have done that yeah I never I never agree I was just like fine whatever so they sent me to a chiropractor building that they were using for the reviews

Laura 1:12:57

okay let me side note the side note and someone with a white chiropractors terrify me like please don't so this wasn't yeah

Ashley Howerin 1:13:07

I know I'm like no don't touch me so it wasn't a chiropractor that reviewed me but they sent me to the building there were no van accessible spaces in the parking lot in the row like so we parked just in a space went in this guy like asked me questions when was the onset of your disorder I'm like he's like early childhood I'm like birth what do you mean

Laura 1:13:39

oh I would have literally turned to my mom and been like when was I conceived?

Ashley Howerin 1:13:43

Yeah like they didn't like we didn't my parents didn't know until I was born so yeah yeah so diagnosis was you know at pretty much birth they looked at me and they went oh but what is it the surprise? Yeah so like you know the stupid questions the what and so we leave and lower my ramp down get my chair in and this woman drives over my ramp like force are you freaking kidding me it wasn't her fault you know because we weren't parked in an accessible space so we just had the ramp out into and the way that the parking lot was there was this weird drop off in front of the space and I think she was just so focused on not going too far over into this ditch that she just totally didn't see a ramp that's the same color as the asphalt so I mean anyway I mean I was pissed off about it but it really wasn't her fault. So she drives up over my ramp and the ramp wouldn't close like once we got her car off of it and I'm screaming going your car just freaking out and so she backs up off of it and we couldn't get the ramp closed it you know was making all this beeping noise it was malfunctioning. We finally got it closed and had to take it in for repairs and it was a crazy amount to get it repaired.

Laura 1:15:23

I'm sure.

Ashley Howerin 1:15:25

So all of that because Social Security insisted that they needed to prove again that I'm still disabled.

Laura 1:15:37

Like I love how they're like they're like you have a total impermanent disability according to the government I have a total impermanent disability we need you to prove that you still have this total impermanent disability

Ashley Howerin 1:15:51

so I get a letter back and they're like so we've decided that your disability is continuing I'm like saying no shit for telling me this thing that's

Laura 1:16:02

No I have never agreed to go to their doctors because I don't trust them I don't trust them to be like yeah this is

Ashley Howerin 1:16:12

I should have said no I just want I was like I just want this over with and I don't want to want to like but you're right I should have just said no

Laura 1:16:21

well from you know my experience like they've never denied me because of it like where are they like I fill out all the forms here's my GP's information she can give you everything you need to know like so I mean they they haven't as of right now I think I've had to go through this one, two, three like four or five times.

Ashley Howerin 1:16:46

Yeah this is my third time. Yeah I've been on Social Security since I was 25. That's about the time that that I started well maybe it wasn't but it feels like it's I think it's about four times that I've had to do it.

Laura 1:17:03

The only the the thing that was this time that made it complicated was the guy called and he sounded like a scammer. Like he didn't like really identifying it's not

Ashley Howerin 1:17:16

it's different than it used to be they used to not contact you that way.

Laura 1:17:20

Like I mean I don't mind like he calls but then it's like but then when I filled out the initial form because they send you like one form and then they send you like a really intense second form or at least they did with me with me too I I'm sure I got the same put you know someone uh like in in the case that we can't call you you know put so I put my mom's number down yeah um and like they would be calling her but then the thing is they never called me like they never called my phone they called her like we're trying to get in touch with Laura like then call her

Ashley Howerin 1:18:02

yeah that's so weird they never called my mom but I did put her down as yeah I when I got the call I thought it was a scammer because they've never called that way and it was a department I'd never heard of it was like it's like you know it was still like department yeah yeah yeah so I mean I you know I've looked it up and decided that it must be legit so many things that are I'm just like okay because and then they're sending me to a chiropractor's office out in the middle of nowhere and I'm like am I gonna end up like what's happening? Are they gonna do a dateline about me?

Laura 1:18:44

Are they gonna say I lit up a room because it's not true.

Ashley Howerin 1:18:47

I don't know. If anybody ever says that about me then there's something they they don't know.

Laura 1:18:54

Yeah the the thing the guy that called me and like this sounds horrible he had an accent he was hard to understand like of course I'm gonna think it's a scam like it's a number I don't recognize it's a department that is like I'm not even sure he said where he was from I think he just said social security or something like something weird like I got I got num

Ashley Howerin 1:19:21

like I got texts from like just somebody's cell phone to confirm the appointment it was really it was quite odd yeah but supposedly that's all over with now

Laura 1:19:37

we'll see for five to seven years anyway

Ashley Howerin 1:19:40

yeah or yeah you know or until they get rid of social until they I know until they oh god oh well yes but yeah my my professional opinion is if they want you to go to a doctor tell them nope because they're not gonna send you to a qualified doctor like they're not sending you to like a good doctor no of course not no and like I mean he looked at me and I'm you know like what that's what my friend was like can't you just like send a picture of yourself like seriously like what what what about this says able body thing I know like really what do you think I'm faking it the wheelchair the short stature the bold thing what what what is it like I'm am I faking it like I don't this is the longest con that ever was

Laura 1:20:36

I've been faking it for 44 years. Uh-huh yeah then you like show them your eye be like see the blue see I know yeah be like what

Ashley Howerin 1:20:48

I mean we'll get it are you sure do you really need that wheelchair well no I could just lay on the floor it's not it's not medically necessary but

Laura 1:21:00

but could you please call the fire department to come pick me up I'm gonna need the fire department to get me off the floor

Ashley Howerin 1:21:08

when I was when I was young people just you could just pick me up I am weighed nothing but now I'm not very easy to pick up so

Laura 1:21:16

I've never been easy to pick up since I was very very young like and plus I just don't trust people

Ashley Howerin 1:21:25

I I was so like it didn't matter you're a stranger I'm like just pick me up under my arms I don't I mean I'm talking about when I was up until up until I was about one in my early twenties I was just like free as hell with that kind of you know I'm just like just pick me up I'm alright and just no way now I mean no stay away from me

Laura 1:21:49

I'm like I've broken too many things people have done cause me too much pain nope

Ashley Howerin 1:21:56

I went I went to Disney with some friends a couple years ago and my friend was like we can just pick you up and put you on the ride and I'm like no no you cannot no not anymore no you cannot thank you very much for your offer but and also about ride because I trust you but no

Laura 1:22:22

because like some of those rides even some of the rides I would be scared to get on because of the like the jarring

Ashley Howerin 1:22:30

this was not one that was done I think it was like it might have been the um haunted mansion oh okay which why the fuck is the haunted mansion not accessible why don't they have why isn't one of them little eggs why don't they have one of them little eggs that you can just slide into because they do have rides that are accessible at Disney but many are not yeah you would think that a place like Disney could afford to have a little car that you could stick your wheelchair on.

Laura 1:23:06

Yeah I thought you were gonna say that you would think a place like Disney would be more inclusive and then I'm like you've heard what they did to the

Ashley Howerin 1:23:15

no I'm I'm talking about the no yeah the money yeah they could afford into all of their rides that they could I mean Disney's very different when I was when I was a kid they were like you get to go first can't do that anymore.

Laura 1:23:33

And I mean I get that but I mean I get that people are abusing it and like yeah and there are people out there like disabled people who are like literally selling themselves as like the you know I'll be your companion and get you in the front of all the lines and I'm like you're fucking it up for everybody. And like honestly how much money could you have made even if you got a free Disney trip. Even if you got a free for that has been so much fun. I'm like looking at the time going well really fast.

Ashley Howerin 1:24:11

Yeah we have been rambling for a while it was really fun.

Laura 1:24:15

So I will definitely be having you back because I'm sure we have much more to talk about and you're on social media as the tiny demon which I think is hysterical frankly because you're into all the horror stuff and I'm like no thank you I'm a big old chicken. That's where we sensibility yes yeah I'm not I'm not down with horror I'm a chicken I'm sorry I'm just but anyway thank you to Ashley for joining me I really appreciate it this has been a lot of fun and you will definitely be coming back. I I already I know so thanks for listening and I will talk to you in the next one.